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American Politics Discussion Thread |
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#601 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
Posts: 4,783
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Republicans have given themselves the power to cut the salaries of individual Govt employees. Saves trying to sack them I guess.
http://washingtonpost.com/local/virg...html?tid=sm_fb |
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#602 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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BBC News: US spy chief promises 'Putin hack' motive
"A top US intelligence official says the reason why Russia allegedly meddled in the US election will be revealed in a report published next week." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38521503 |
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#603 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,747
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i would have thought the motive was quite clear and i pointed it out a few times already
the sanctions imposed on Russia after the Crimea are hurting their economy, a Clinton win would have meant zero chance of those sanctions being lifted so it was in Russia's interests to try and assist Trump kinda backfired a bit atm as its going to be hard for Trump to lift the existing sanctions when there is such strong support in congress in favour of them, and thats from Republicans |
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#604 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
Foreign news media from many countries had something to say about the American election. Here in the UK it was hardly out of the news. We had our own commentators and pundits having their say on who and who shouldn't become the American president and why.
With information being global there were influences from all over the world who put their ten penneth in. The only difference is that Wikileaks had a news scoop that no one else had. If investigative journalism was as healthy in America as it should be much of it was information which should have been out there and the American public deserved to know about. There is a difference between releasing hacked emails, and doing investigative journalism. That you can't tell the difference between the two is your problem. Plus your position just glosses over the fact that all of these emails and releases targeted Democrats and Clinton, and none targeted the RNC or Trump. That fact speaks volumes. |
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#605 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,418
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Quote:
So the narrative was "Clinton was scandal plagued", yet Trump was not then was he?
He was involved in more scandals in this election cycle then anyone in history, so it was hardly a one sided thing! I am not believing Trump over anyone, you say that there have been reports issued, fair enough, where are they? What evidence in these reports is there to question the validity of this election, once again, why not make public this evidence, rather than keeping it to a very small amount of people? What good does that do? You are just showing your bias by calling Trump names at the end, we are trying towage a sensible political debate here, name calling of a soon to be President is just not required here. There have been reports published by the FBI and DHS, and the classified report given to Obama will be released next week, and I'm sure at that time you'll find some arcane way to discredit it. |
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#606 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,727
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Quote:
the sanctions imposed on Russia after the Crimea are hurting their economy,
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a Clinton win would have meant zero chance of those sanctions being lifted so it was in Russia's interests to try and assist Trump
I would have thought there was zero chance of Clinton turning a blind eye to Russian interests in the Balkan States.
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#607 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,747
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Quote:
I would have thought that it has to do with NATO and if America backed down, it would leave Eastern Europe more open to Putin than if America was more actively involved.
I would have thought there was zero chance of Clinton turning a blind eye to Russian interests in the Balkan States. |
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#608 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,133
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You're not the forum police, I can call Trump whatever I like. I don't pretend to like him, and I'll never respect him. Deal with it.
There have been reports published by the FBI and DHS, and the classified report given to Obama will be released next week, and I'm sure at that time you'll find some arcane way to discredit it. I want as much information to be released as possible. |
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#609 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK - Leaving The EU - MAGA
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
You're not the forum police, I can call Trump whatever I like. I don't pretend to like him, and I'll never respect him. Deal with it.
There have been reports published by the FBI and DHS, and the classified report given to Obama will be released next week, and I'm sure at that time you'll find some arcane way to discredit it. |
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#610 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,307
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Donald Trump 'plans to pare back top spy agency' and 'restructure CIA' after attacking intelligence blaming Russia for hacking
That'll go down well with Republicans |
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#611 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Those are very dangerous people to have as enemies.
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#612 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 492
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Quote:
I would have thought that it has to do with NATO and if America backed down, it would leave Eastern Europe more open to Putin than if America was more actively involved.
I would have thought there was zero chance of Clinton turning a blind eye to Russian interests in the Balkan States. If you ask my people now if they are worried about Russian aggression though, they arent. What they are worried about is the escalation of tension between Russia and the West. Noone wants another Cold War. The current sanctions against Russia are enough to deeply hurt our economy. And noone wants to be dragged into some proxy war, or open war against Russia. We all understand that we would be the ones at the front line, and most probably see our countries destroyed if that happened (frankly, I think the Obama/Clinton administration was heading into that direction). So a person in the White House who doesnt express anti-Russian rhetoric and looks towards restoring and normalizing the relations instead is a welcomed change. |
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#613 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
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I love how is everyone suddenly so worried about Eastern Europe. Where the **** were all these people when we truly needed help and were occupied by USSR? Nobody helped us, and we still managed to survive, people were leading their lives in a totalitarian regime, and a good amount of people even miss some parts of that evil communist regime as free education, healthcare and meds, granted jobs and how our art scene was thriving because foreign music and movies were banned. It were hard times, and I dont want them to return.
If you ask my people now if they are worried about Russian aggression though, they arent. What they are worried about is the escalation of tension between Russia and the West. Noone wants another Cold War. The current sanctions against Russia are enough to deeply hurt our economy. And noone wants to be dragged into some proxy war, or open war against Russia. We all understand that we would be the ones at the front line, and most probably see our countries destroyed if that happened, and frankly, I think the Clinton administration was heading into that direction. So a person in the White House who doesnt express anti-Russian rhetoric and looks towards restoring and normalizing the relations instead is a welcomed change. All of Eastern Europe is seeing a bigger Russian threat ,and reacting accordingly. Difficult not to when Putin is directly threatening them, buzzing their airspace, attacking the Ukraine, and deploying new armoured divisons, and nuclear missiles on their borders, There's recruits turning up for all the local homeguard units, increases in army manpower, increased use of conscription, equipment modernisation, increased defence budgets , additional training , and more exercises, Defence spending is going up 100% in some cases, Finland has increased its mobilsed army strength to 280,000 , Sweden has garrisoned its Baltic islands , The Baltic sates are bringing on new units ,and replacing their equipment. Poland has a massive modernisation effort underway. And even Germany has increased its tank force by a third. Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Norway have all asked for, and got a bigger NATO force presence. Finland and Sweden are exercising more and more with US and NATO forces. The result is there's now an army unit, from a NATO nucear power, on all the invasions routes into the Blatic States, or Poland -zero threat to Russia, but a tripwire to what will happen, if Russia invades, and starts killing them regardless. This isn't led by some US aggession ,as the Russian propaganda machine suggests, Thats a pretty ridiculous idea - especially under the most placid US President since 1978. Its a case of the locals wanting more protection , spending more on it, and asking for more visible support - with hardly any local dissent. |
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#614 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 15,093
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Obama's asked for as much as can be about the report into Russian hacking to be made public. Presumably to pre-empt or to embarrass Trump and his upcoming and previous dismissals of the intelligence.
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#615 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Quote:
Two reports which provide no proof of this alleged 'hacking'.
Trump's denial of what the experts are saying could have a less than honourable motivation. |
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#616 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,307
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Any proof would be extremely technical and as unintelligible to the average person as a proof of Fermat's Last Theorem.
Trump's denial of what the experts are saying could have a less than honourable motivation. |
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#617 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
BBC News: US spy chief promises 'Putin hack' motive
"A top US intelligence official says the reason why Russia allegedly meddled in the US election will be revealed in a report published next week." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38521503 |
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#618 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Quote:
So no actual proof that the hacking was done by the Russians.
It's best to just accept it as a fact now and move on. Of public figures, only Trump is still trying to deny it. |
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#619 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,747
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Quote:
So no actual proof that the hacking was done by the Russians.
people that have zero to gain from accepting russian interference in an election they won |
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#620 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 492
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Quote:
Not whats happening.
All of Eastern Europe is seeing a bigger Russian threat ,and reacting accordingly. Difficult not to when Putin is directly threatening them, buzzing their airspace, attacking the Ukraine, and deploying new armoured divisons, and nuclear missiles on their borders, There's recruits turning up for all the local homeguard units, increases in army manpower, increased use of conscription, equipment modernisation, increased defence budgets , additional training , and more exercises, Defence spending is going up 100% in some cases, Finland has increased its mobilsed army strength to 280,000 , Sweden has garrisoned its Baltic islands , The Baltic sates are bringing on new units ,and replacing their equipment. Poland has a massive modernisation effort underway. And even Germany has increased its tank force by a third. Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Norway have all asked for, and got a bigger NATO force presence. Finland and Sweden are exercising more and more with US and NATO forces. The result is there's now an army unit, from a NATO nucear power, on all the invasions routes into the Blatic States, or Poland -zero threat to Russia, but a tripwire to what will happen, if Russia invades, and starts killing them regardless. This isn't led by some US aggession ,as the Russian propaganda machine suggests, Thats a pretty ridiculous idea - especially under the most placid US President since 1978. Its a case of the locals wanting more protection , spending more on it, and asking for more visible support - with hardly any local dissent. So you know better than me what the mood here is, right? There are military deals we have to fulfill as NATO members, but its not like the people are comfortable with foreign forces in our countries. My country opposed the bigger NATO presence, but there is pressure from EU and NATO, and we have our responsibilities as members of those institutions. There are politicians who are welcoming it, there are politicians who oppose it, and there were several protests against it. My people dont see Russia as a threat rght now. I know that the fear is bigger in Baltic countries, but the population is divided and huge part of the population is actually pro-Russian lol. Poland is another case, not as worried about an aggression as they are haunted by the history and animosity between the two countries, its often sour grapes in their case. Also, your claim that this military build up poses zero threat to Russia is naive and ridiculous, I think Russia sees it very differently, and that alone is quite problematic. Also, I know your posting history, thenetworkbabe. You are just a russophobic troll with an agenda, I wont waste my time to further discuss the situation in my country and region with you, because you obviously know everything the best. |
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#621 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: UK - Leaving The EU - MAGA
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
What proof would convince you? What proof would you (or any of us on this thread) be capable of understanding and be sure was valid?
It's best to just accept it as a fact now and move on. Of public figures, only Trump is still trying to deny it. |
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#622 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Not whats happening.
All of Eastern Europe is seeing a bigger Russian threat ,and reacting accordingly. Difficult not to when Putin is directly threatening them, buzzing their airspace, attacking the Ukraine, and deploying new armoured divisons, and nuclear missiles on their borders, There's recruits turning up for all the local homeguard units, increases in army manpower, increased use of conscription, equipment modernisation, increased defence budgets , additional training , and more exercises, Defence spending is going up 100% in some cases, Finland has increased its mobilsed army strength to 280,000 , Sweden has garrisoned its Baltic islands , The Baltic sates are bringing on new units ,and replacing their equipment. Poland has a massive modernisation effort underway. And even Germany has increased its tank force by a third. Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, and Norway have all asked for, and got a bigger NATO force presence. Finland and Sweden are exercising more and more with US and NATO forces. The result is there's now an army unit, from a NATO nucear power, on all the invasions routes into the Blatic States, or Poland -zero threat to Russia, but a tripwire to what will happen, if Russia invades, and starts killing them regardless. This isn't led by some US aggession ,as the Russian propaganda machine suggests, Thats a pretty ridiculous idea - especially under the most placid US President since 1978. Its a case of the locals wanting more protection , spending more on it, and asking for more visible support - with hardly any local dissent. And if we are to learn anything about the Syria campaign they are still to reliant on dumb weapons such as barrel bombs. On paper yes the Russians and the Chinese are monsters in reality the bulk of the Russian army are poorly trained conscripts. |
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#623 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,727
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Quote:
So no actual proof that the hacking was done by the Russians.
a balance of probabilities - not beyond reasonable doubt. In this instance the hacks have been traced back to known Russian state actors, when you look at the benefit to Putin of Trumps victory that amounts to a considerable case that Russia did hack the DNC emails and did release them to WikiLeaks, led by a man with known grudge against Hilary Clinton. |
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#624 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Quote:
Are you implying they would provide false information?
The other poster expressed a desire for a proof and I was trying to explain that because it is a deeply technical matter, only an expert would be capable of assembling, checking and understanding a proof. |
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#625 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 492
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Quote:
For the hundredth time Russia cannot mount a military campaign on nato... it simply has not the logistical support to do so.
And if we are to learn anything about the Syria campaign they are still to reliant on dumb weapons such as barrel bombs. On paper yes the Russians and the Chinese are monsters in reality the bulk of the Russian army are poorly trained conscripts. |
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