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American Politics Discussion Thread |
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#626 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,727
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Quote:
For the hundredth time Russia cannot mount a military campaign on nato... it simply has not the logistical support to do so.
Once it creates a pro-Russian group in the target country then that will agitate for Russian support. |
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#627 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Thats true. If the Russian campaign in Syria prooved something, its how desperately they need to modernize their military equipment, but their economy is in big trouble to enable it, and the sanctions will effectively prevent it. The Kuznetsov stunt hillariously backfired lol
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#628 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Russia rarely works like that and Putin with his background in the KGB has experience of how to do it. Russia works by infiltration. By persuading like minded people in the target country to support Russia - they did it in Afghanistan, and that is what they are doing in Syria, by cultivating a like with Assad.
Once it creates a pro-Russian group in the target country then that will agitate for Russian support. The poles for instance are fiercely independent and I would guess the baltic likewise would be aswell. |
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#629 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Those are very dangerous people to have as enemies.
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#630 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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What about the Russian takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine?
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#631 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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This is not like a James Bond movie where there was absolute proof that a Hugo Drax Character wanted to create mass genocide. In international espionage it is about
a balance of probabilities - not beyond reasonable doubt. In this instance the hacks have been traced back to known Russian state actors, when you look at the benefit to Putin of Trumps victory that amounts to a considerable case that Russia did hack the DNC emails and did release them to WikiLeaks, led by a man with known grudge against Hilary Clinton. |
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#632 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
What about the Russian takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine?
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#633 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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What about it?
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#634 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Have they provided a trace route?
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#635 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Other posters were claiming that the Russian military were ineffective. They were effective enough in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
![]() The Russians have 3 tiers in the military A the elite trained B the common soldier C the largest group conscripts Look to Paul's post. It's a good description of how the Russians operate |
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#636 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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If such a document were supplied, would you believe it?
If one was brought forward I would expect wikileaks to contest it's authenticity. |
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#637 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 214
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So the new line is "people are too stupid to understand the evidence"
No wonder Trump won. |
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#638 |
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,277
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Perhaps we need a separate Reds under the beds thread to discuss Russia and Russian Politics and related hysteria. This is supposed to be about American politics.
If you want to discuss why Hillary really lost - because she was a rubbish candidate, had no message to appeal to working class voters and failed to campaign in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania be my guest. As for Podesta conducting campaign business on a gmail account and then clicking a phishing email causing him to be hacked - well thank heavens he doesn't have a role in national security anymore. |
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#639 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Quote:
As I said earlier all I want is some sort of prove that the Russians did it rather than simply being told it was them
We can only go by what the experts say. Whether you believe them is up to you. But right now AFAIK the only public figure who isn't accepting what the experts are saying is Trump. |
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#640 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,277
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Quote:
So the new line is "people are too stupid to understand the evidence"
No wonder Trump won. Like not understanding advanced mathematical proofs, or medical diagnosis and treatment, or quantum mechanics, or electronic circuit design, or thousands of other things that most people don't understand because it isn't their field of expertise. |
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#641 |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,484
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And how the hell are you going to check that proof? Unless you're an expert with full access to the actual computers involved, you'd have no idea if it was genuine or a complete work of fiction.
We can only go by what the experts say. Whether you believe them is up to you. But right now AFAIK the only public figure who isn't accepting what the experts are saying is Trump. Why the hell would the national security lie - Trump has won - the result isn't going to be overturned. Surely it's important that the new president is fully aware of the scope of this hacking. It's serious stuff - there is nothing to be gained from lying. Quite why Trump chooses to believe Assange and Putin over the entire US security/intelligence even to the extent of ridiculing them is very worrying. |
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#642 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Yep.
Why the hell would the national security lie - Trump has won - the result isn't going to be overturned. Surely it's important that the new president is fully aware of the scope of this hacking. It's serious stuff - there is nothing to be gained from lying. Quite why Trump chooses to believe Assange and Putin over the entire US security/intelligence even to the extent of ridiculing them is very worrying. |
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#643 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,484
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To secure there budget? T hey aren't adverse to lying remember the wmds Iraq had...
This really is an Emperors new clothes scenario - when is someone gonna have the balls to tell Trump to grow up and stop acting like a spoilt child. He is an ignorant and incompetent fool and ridiculing and belittling US national security on Twitter is a stupid and dangerous game to play. |
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#644 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Seriously? FGS - to secure their budget? You're having a laugh.
This really is an Emperors new clothes scenario - when is someone gonna have the balls to tell Trump to grow up and stop acting like a spoilt child. He is an ignorant and incompetent fool and ridiculing and belittling US national security on Twitter is a stupid and dangerous game to play. I'm only suggesting a reason why they would lie not actually saying hey lied. |
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#645 |
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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#646 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,484
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Incredibly disturbing stuff. Poor guy. |
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#647 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 214
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Sickening. Lock them up and throw away the key.
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#648 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,133
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#649 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,133
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Quote:
trump is scared that he could have been elected by Putin, thus his denials of any Russian involvement
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#650 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
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Quote:
Terrible crime, but what has it got to do with politics??
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