DS Forums

 
 

American Politics Discussion Thread


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Yesterday, 19:43
paulschapman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,736
For the hundredth time Russia cannot mount a military campaign on nato... it simply has not the logistical support to do so.
Russia rarely works like that and Putin with his background in the KGB has experience of how to do it. Russia works by infiltration. By persuading like minded people in the target country to support Russia - they did it in Afghanistan, and that is what they are doing in Syria, by cultivating a like with Assad.

Once it creates a pro-Russian group in the target country then that will agitate for Russian support.
paulschapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old Yesterday, 19:43
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Thats true. If the Russian campaign in Syria prooved something, its how desperately they need to modernize their military equipment, but their economy is in big trouble to enable it, and the sanctions will effectively prevent it. The Kuznetsov stunt hillariously backfired lol
The footage of Russian soldiers dropping bombs out of the side of a helicopter was both hilarious as this is the bogeyman we are taught to fear and disgusting as the scale of the casualties of civilians would be off the charts as this is a notoriously inaccurate weapon.
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:47
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Russia rarely works like that and Putin with his background in the KGB has experience of how to do it. Russia works by infiltration. By persuading like minded people in the target country to support Russia - they did it in Afghanistan, and that is what they are doing in Syria, by cultivating a like with Assad.

Once it creates a pro-Russian group in the target country then that will agitate for Russian support.
There's a staggering difference between tribesman of Afghanistan and a nation backed by the usa and other western powers.

The poles for instance are fiercely independent and I would guess the baltic likewise would be aswell.
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:48
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Those are very dangerous people to have as enemies.
Agreed...he seems to think they will bend to his will as easy as private companies
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:49
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
What about the Russian takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine?
John259 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:49
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
This is not like a James Bond movie where there was absolute proof that a Hugo Drax Character wanted to create mass genocide. In international espionage it is about
a balance of probabilities - not beyond reasonable doubt.

In this instance the hacks have been traced back to known Russian state actors, when you look at the benefit to Putin of Trumps victory that amounts to a considerable case that Russia did hack the DNC emails and did release them to WikiLeaks, led by a man with known grudge against Hilary Clinton.
Have they provided a trace route?
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:55
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
What about the Russian takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine?
What about it?
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:58
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
Other posters were claiming that the Russian military were ineffective. They were effective enough in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
John259 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 19:58
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
Have they provided a trace route?
If such a document were supplied, would you believe it?
John259 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:03
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Other posters were claiming that the Russian military were ineffective. They were effective enough in Crimea and eastern Ukraine.
Did you see the opposition to them

The Russians have 3 tiers in the military

A the elite trained

B the common soldier

C the largest group conscripts

Look to Paul's post. It's a good description of how the Russians operate
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:04
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
If such a document were supplied, would you believe it?
As I said earlier all I want is some sort of prove that the Russians did it rather than simply being told it was them

If one was brought forward I would expect wikileaks to contest it's authenticity.
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:04
Video Nasty
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
So the new line is "people are too stupid to understand the evidence"

No wonder Trump won.
Video Nasty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:06
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
Perhaps we need a separate Reds under the beds thread to discuss Russia and Russian Politics and related hysteria. This is supposed to be about American politics.

If you want to discuss why Hillary really lost - because she was a rubbish candidate, had no message to appeal to working class voters and failed to campaign in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania be my guest.

As for Podesta conducting campaign business on a gmail account and then clicking a phishing email causing him to be hacked - well thank heavens he doesn't have a role in national security anymore.
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:12
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
As I said earlier all I want is some sort of prove that the Russians did it rather than simply being told it was them
And how the hell are you going to check that proof? Unless you're an expert with full access to the actual computers involved, you'd have no idea if it was genuine or a complete work of fiction.

We can only go by what the experts say. Whether you believe them is up to you. But right now AFAIK the only public figure who isn't accepting what the experts are saying is Trump.
John259 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:18
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
So the new line is "people are too stupid to understand the evidence"

No wonder Trump won.
Not stupid, just lacking the knowledge and training required to understand it.

Like not understanding advanced mathematical proofs, or medical diagnosis and treatment, or quantum mechanics, or electronic circuit design, or thousands of other things that most people don't understand because it isn't their field of expertise.
John259 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:24
Penny Crayon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,498
And how the hell are you going to check that proof? Unless you're an expert with full access to the actual computers involved, you'd have no idea if it was genuine or a complete work of fiction.

We can only go by what the experts say. Whether you believe them is up to you. But right now AFAIK the only public figure who isn't accepting what the experts are saying is Trump.
Yep.

Why the hell would the national security lie - Trump has won - the result isn't going to be overturned. Surely it's important that the new president is fully aware of the scope of this hacking. It's serious stuff - there is nothing to be gained from lying.

Quite why Trump chooses to believe Assange and Putin over the entire US security/intelligence even to the extent of ridiculing them is very worrying.
Penny Crayon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:28
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Yep.

Why the hell would the national security lie - Trump has won - the result isn't going to be overturned. Surely it's important that the new president is fully aware of the scope of this hacking. It's serious stuff - there is nothing to be gained from lying.

Quite why Trump chooses to believe Assange and Putin over the entire US security/intelligence even to the extent of ridiculing them is very worrying.
To secure there budget? T hey aren't adverse to lying remember the wmds Iraq had...
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:39
Penny Crayon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,498
To secure there budget? T hey aren't adverse to lying remember the wmds Iraq had...
Seriously? FGS - to secure their budget? You're having a laugh.

This really is an Emperors new clothes scenario - when is someone gonna have the balls to tell Trump to grow up and stop acting like a spoilt child. He is an ignorant and incompetent fool and ridiculing and belittling US national security on Twitter is a stupid and dangerous game to play.
Penny Crayon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:42
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Seriously? FGS - to secure their budget? You're having a laugh.

This really is an Emperors new clothes scenario - when is someone gonna have the balls to tell Trump to grow up and stop acting like a spoilt child. He is an ignorant and incompetent fool and ridiculing and belittling US national security on Twitter is a stupid and dangerous game to play.
With a trillion dollar deficit somethings have to go.

I'm only suggesting a reason why they would lie not actually saying hey lied.
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:43
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38525549

Dunno if anyone has seen this.
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:48
Penny Crayon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,498
I saw it on CNN in the early hours this morning.

Incredibly disturbing stuff.

Poor guy.
Penny Crayon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:49
Video Nasty
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
Sickening. Lock them up and throw away the key.
Video Nasty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:58
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
Terrible crime, but what has it got to do with politics??
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 20:59
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
trump is scared that he could have been elected by Putin, thus his denials of any Russian involvement
No that was never the case, that was reinforced in the hearing today, so you can drop this line of thinking.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 21:00
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
Terrible crime, but what has it got to do with politics??
Considering the bring trump up during the crime...
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:19.