DS Forums

 
 

American Politics Discussion Thread


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Yesterday, 21:04
Dotheboyshall
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,307
No that was never the case, that was reinforced in the hearing today, so you can drop this line of thinking.
Doesn't mean he doesn't fear it. Any evidence that Russia preferred trump and took measures to "help" would mean trump being, at the very least, embarrassed - which given trump's thin skin is probably not a good idea.
Dotheboyshall is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old Yesterday, 21:16
batdude_uk1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,132
Doesn't mean he doesn't fear it. Any evidence that Russia preferred trump and took measures to "help" would mean trump being, at the very least, embarrassed - which given trump's thin skin is probably not a good idea.
Russia may very well have phished the DNC, and planted fake news stories, but that doesn't mean that they won the election for Trump.

Trump won fair and square, the votes were not tampered with, people voted and the votes were counted, and Trump won in the end, that is without question.

People trying to delegitimise Trumps win are in the wrong here.

Russia may have wanted Trump to win, who knows, but that doesn't mean that they changed the election in his favour, the two are very different things.
batdude_uk1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 22:09
oncemore
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,418
Russia may very well have phished the DNC, and planted fake news stories, but that doesn't mean that they won the election for Trump.

Trump won fair and square, the votes were not tampered with, people voted and the votes were counted, and Trump won in the end, that is without question.

People trying to delegitimise Trumps win are in the wrong here.

Russia may have wanted Trump to win, who knows, but that doesn't mean that they changed the election in his favour, the two are very different things.
"Russia may very well have phished the DNC, and planted fake news stories"

"Trump won fair and square"

Pick one.

Again with the fragility. If Russian hacking caused a vote to swing in one direction or the other, we should know about it, investigate it and try to figure out a way to avoid it in the future. Only Trump (and his 'fans') are triggered by this because it means that maybe not everybody loves their God Emperor.

Honestly if the shoe was on the other foot, Trump would be making a huge stink about this and Republicans would be out of their flippin' minds. But since it happened to Clinton and the DNC, conservatives don't mind ignoring a foreign government meddling in our elections. I think we know where their loyalties lie.
oncemore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 22:26
BomoLad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 15,088
This is the same Trump who indicated he'd only accept the result of the election if it was to his liking. I recall reading this thread at the time and a lot of his supporters argued this was a sensible position for him to take.

Now the CIA say they've uncovered evidence of Russian interference in the election, suddenly it's all irrelevant and we should move on?
BomoLad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 22:56
nethwen
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Lothlórien
Posts: 19,736
Assange! Not exactly a credible source to put it mildly.
With a 100% accuracy record, I think you are wrong there.

Assange was also something of a hero to Democrats when he was publishing the indiscretions of the Bush Jr years. Funny that.

How did Assange know?
The password was in one of the leaked Podesta emails. I remember reading it at the time - I can't remember the email number now, though. Podesta also left his phone behind in a taxi at one time.
nethwen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:29
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
Well James clapper has stated that his finger prints were all over the false data on Iraq wmds...

And you wonder why there are some of us that are suspicious over the Russian hacking allegations
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 01:58
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,276
For those who might be interested series 6 of Celebrity Apprentice USA is starting on BBC1 at midnight this Sunday. It's an all star season and 'super villain' Omarosa - who has been given a job in his new administration - returns. She has a major fall out with La Toya Jackson in one episode.

Ivanka, Eric and Don Jr reprise their roles as the President elects' advisors.

https://youtu.be/geNjA1XtMyM
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 04:23
johnny_boi_UK
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,038
Black and decker opening a new plant in the US because of uncertainty with Mexico and china
johnny_boi_UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:01
paulschapman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,726
Have they provided a trace route?
You can spoof IP address, but yes one of those reports does include the IP address. The issue however is not just down to the technical idea of tracing through IP addresses and saying look an address in Russia. Indeed the Russian Embassy has a number of satellite buildings which have been the source of hacking.

There is also Human intelligence that inform the security services, there is meta data in the connections and comparisons with previous hacks where the hackers have been known. There is no way that the security services will give evidence of the first of those.
paulschapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:04
paulschapman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,726
There's a staggering difference between tribesman of Afghanistan and a nation backed by the usa and other western powers.
Apart from being insulting to those in Afghanistan - those tribesman have held back pretty much all of the world's super powers since the days of the British Empire and the Raj. I am not however talking about a traditional battle - but undermining the political process.

The poles for instance are fiercely independent and I would guess the baltic likewise would be aswell.
Not if you use ethnic Russian people in those countries - which is what they did in the Ukraine - and given the 50 years of rule under the Iron Curtain they will be enough.
paulschapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:08
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,276
There are reports today that Russian officials celebrated Trump's election victory and their part in securing it:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympl...ted-trumps-win

I'm just providing the link to this story, not necessarily agreeing with it because I don't know how reliable the source is.
John259 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:09
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,729
That's not at all what happened. Wikileaks wasn't some random news channel pundit in Austria commenting on the US Election, they were putting out hacked documents, and pushing the narrative that the DNC threw the election and that there was something damning in Clinton's emails. Neither was true, but the drip of leaks kept the narrative going, and created another scandal. Comey's announcement really iced it.

There is a difference between releasing hacked emails, and doing investigative journalism. That you can't tell the difference between the two is your problem. Plus your position just glosses over the fact that all of these emails and releases targeted Democrats and Clinton, and none targeted the RNC or Trump. That fact speaks volumes.
You can call them documents if you wish, but we all know that they were emails which contained quite casual and informal exchanges at times, where people within the DNC revealed who they were and what they were doing as part of their campaign strategy.
We aren't talking state secrets here, we're talking about a clumsy and ethically questionable campaign strategy which people were only made aware of due to the DNC's lazy approach to security protocol.

Wikileaks didn't tell people how to read the emails by as you describe pushing a narrative. They just put them out there for public consumption. The only narratives which evolved from that is based on what readers of the emails reported. You are entitled to think whatever you think about the contents of those emails. I guess that if the content was benign then anyone who voted based on whatever they read in the emails wouldn't have given Clinton a thumbs down.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:09
paulschapman
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,726
Seriously? FGS - to secure their budget? You're having a laugh.

This really is an Emperors new clothes scenario - when is someone gonna have the balls to tell Trump to grow up and stop acting like a spoilt child. He is an ignorant and incompetent fool and ridiculing and belittling US national security on Twitter is a stupid and dangerous game to play.
Democrat minority leader Charles Shumer said much the same thing on MBNC - thing is the security services are going to know where a lot of skeleton's are buried - Trump keeps on like this I would not be surprised if one of skeleton's emerges.
paulschapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:13
John259
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,276
Trump keeps on like this I would not be surprised if one of skeleton's emerges.
Indeed. But I guess they'd want to make sure to flush Pence down the tubes at the same time as Trump.
John259 is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:19
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,729
I love how is everyone suddenly so worried about Eastern Europe. Where the **** were all these people when we truly needed help and were occupied by USSR? Nobody helped us, and we still managed to survive, people were leading their lives in a totalitarian regime, and a good amount of people even miss some aspects of that evil communist regime as free education, healthcare and meds, granted jobs and how our art scene was thriving because foreign music and movies were banned. It were hard times, and I dont want them to return.

If you ask my people now if they are worried about Russian aggression though, they arent. What they are worried about is the escalation of tension between Russia and the West. Noone wants another Cold War. The current sanctions against Russia are enough to deeply hurt our economy. And noone wants to be dragged into some proxy war, or open war against Russia. We all understand that we would be the ones at the front line, and most probably see our countries destroyed if that happened (frankly, I think the Obama/Clinton administration was heading into that direction). So a person in the White House who doesnt express anti-Russian rhetoric and looks towards restoring and normalizing the relations instead is a welcomed change.
Thanks for your insight. Do you mind me asking which country you're from? You don't have to answer that if you don't want to.
You're right in that escalating tensions put countries bordering Russia in a very precarious position. Since the break-up of the USSR it's been good to see some Eastern European nations developing in their own way and becoming up and coming independent nations in their own right. If they don't like how something is going they will speak their mind to power. It's a slow process but a worthwhile journey.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread Today, 09:23
Alrightmate
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 65,729
So no actual proof that the hacking was done by the Russians.
At least the BBC are framing it as 'allegedly' which I guess you have to give them some credit for.
Alrightmate is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32.