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American Politics Discussion Thread |
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#676 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
This seems inevitable to honest. It'll quickly be determined, if it hasn't already, that Trump's presidency is against the national security interests of the country. I suspect they'll move to first undermine his presidency by leaking all of his skeletons, which they undoubtedly know about, in an attempt to make his continuation in the job untenable.
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#677 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 15,155
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Quote:
He seems to be teflon though, things that would normally embassy other people, do not embassy him, so whatever they brought to the public attention, how would it be any different from what has happened already??
Just look at how secretive he still is with his tax information alone. Then there's the ongoing disinvestment fiasco where it's clear he has too many fingers in too many pies and is unwilling to remove them all hence why we get announcement of an announcement on the subject but then no actual announcement. |
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#678 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
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Quote:
![]() ![]() Hacking's fine. But it's just not the correct etiquette to do it when there's a presidential campaign in America being run. I can't believe how casually that's being reported with absolutely no irony or self-awareness whatsoever. We are hacking the Russians and this is why we can report this - no sense of irony there! |
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#679 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,736
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Quote:
He seems to be teflon though, things that would normally embassy other people, do not embassy him, so whatever they brought to the public attention, how would it be any different from what has happened already??
Take his promises to bring back manufacturing - well he might succeed in doing that, but he will not bring back the jobs - that boat has sailed and those jobs are largely automated. So that will be a lot of blue collar workers who voted for him, not at all happy. And when those blue-collar workers want there Toyota Pick-up and find it costs more because of the tariffs Trump wants to impose they will be even less happy. The mid-term elections might be interesting as the Republicans only have a 3 seat majority in the senate. That gives Trump a two year window to stop posting on Twitter and make a positive change. |
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#680 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
He seems to be teflon though, things that would normally embassy other people, do not embassy him, so whatever they brought to the public attention, how would it be any different from what has happened already??
Now though, things that were no more than a mild embarrassment to him as a candidate, can now be far more deadly to him as a sitting President of the US. I also have a suspicion that they didn't intend to entirely destroy him, and treated him with misplaced deference - I know it sounds strange, but the whole 'pussy grabbing' thing was a long time ago, and could easily be washed over, once the damage was done (so they thought). But Trump's supporters defied expectation, and he got the EC votes he needed to win. So now, they probably have a whole bunch of smoking guns - and, let's be honest, even if Trump tries to defer on his tax returns, I'm betting there are vast amounts of dodgy dealings in there, that the national intelligence agencies are perfectly aware of. It's just a case of an 'Edward Snowden' type getting the information out in the public domain. Sexual misconduct isn't the kind of thing that brings down a president - Bill Clinton proved that - I think they need something that entirely discredits Trump as a businessman, and shows everyone just how much he lied about it all. I strongly believe there's a lot of information out there that could easily destroy him completely - it's just a case of who and when. |
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#681 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
Because we won't be talking about crude remarks. We'll be talking about his dodgy deals, his tax situation, people his lawyers have paid off to keep quiet, business relationships with certain people. The skeletons won't be that he mooned the dinner lady in 7th grade or even that he said something inappropriate on a bus.
Just look at how secretive he still is with his tax information alone. Then there's the ongoing disinvestment fiasco where it's clear he has too many fingers in too many pies and is unwilling to remove them all hence why we get announcement of an announcement on the subject but then no actual announcement. Quote:
The thing is, I genuinely don't think anyone - apart his most ardent supporters and defenders - believed that he'd be taking the oath of office in two week's time. I really do believe that they thought the revelations about his misogyny, and the simple pointing out of the lies he continually told throughout the campaign would end in his defeat.
Now though, things that were no more than a mild embarrassment to him as a candidate, can now be far more deadly to him as a sitting President of the US. I also have a suspicion that they didn't intend to entirely destroy him, and treated him with misplaced deference - I know it sounds strange, but the whole 'pussy grabbing' thing was a long time ago, and could easily be washed over, once the damage was done (so they thought). But Trump's supporters defied expectation, and he got the EC votes he needed to win. So now, they probably have a whole bunch of smoking guns - and, let's be honest, even if Trump tries to defer on his tax returns, I'm betting there are vast amounts of dodgy dealings in there, that the national intelligence agencies are perfectly aware of. It's just a case of an 'Edward Snowden' type getting the information out in the public domain. Sexual misconduct isn't the kind of thing that brings down a president - Bill Clinton proved that - I think they need something that entirely discredits Trump as a businessman, and shows everyone just how much he lied about it all. I strongly believe there's a lot of information out there that could easily destroy him completely - it's just a case of who and when. I think people know that he is just mostly shimmer, rather being actually a wholesome person. You should never take what he says without a large dollop of salt, so whatever could come out, he could very well try to spin to his advantage as he has done on countless times in the past. He will of course have a very hard time regarding automation jobs, that is for sure, but nothing much surprises me any more regarding him! |
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#682 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,498
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Quote:
If he had skeletons in the cupboard to uncover I think they would have certainly done that in the election campaign. During which time the best thing they could dig up was an 11 year old video about grabbing women's pussies, and a couple of allegations of sexual assault which mysteriously evaporated into nothing.
If you honestly believe that he has skeletons which they undoubtedly know about, do you really think it was a smart strategy to willfully lose the election with the plan to bring those skeletons up when their opponent is inaugurated as the president? Why would they wait? Surely the primary purpose was to get Clinton into the White House? Why would they just sit on it and wait for Trump to become the president in order to bring him down? And what do you mean by they 'undoubtedly' know about his skeletons? I doubt it. Is this the kind of certainty somebody acquires when they are prepared to accept a theory without being shown evidence? When you say that Trump's presidency is against the national security interests of the country does this take into consideration that the Republicans didn't get hacked but the Democrats did due to their own casual approach to security? I do agree with you that they more than likely have a probable strategy of trying to mess things up as much as possible for him though. Just not convinced on the detail. All this stuff about Russia will be a part of it. |
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#683 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,736
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Quote:
Well we don't actually know that do we? .
see http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/12/1...leak-anything/ Quote:
The Russians hacked the Republican National Committee’s computer systems in addition to their attacks on Democratic organizations, but did not release whatever information they gleaned from the Republican networks. “We now have high confidence that they hacked the D.N.C. and the R.N.C., and conspicuously released no documents” from the Republican organization, one senior administration official said, referring to the Russians. As the above link is not exactly independent there is this as well http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...211-story.html. . . . Representative Michael McCaul (R-Tx.), who was considered by Mr. Trump for secretary of Homeland Security, initially told CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, “It’s important to note, Wolf, that they have not only hacked into the D.N.C. but also into the R.N.C.” He added that “the Russians have basically hacked into both parties at the national level, and that gives us all concern about what their motivations are.” Minutes later, the R.N.C. issued a statement denying that it had been hacked. Mr. McCaul subsequently said that he had misspoken, but that it was true that “Republican political operatives” had been the target of Russian hacking. So were establishment Republicans with no ties to the campaign, including former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell. Quote:
The FBI notified the Illinois Republican Party in June that some of its email accounts may have been hacked, but party officials were not told that it was part of a wide-ranging federal investigation of Russian activity in the nation's political system, the state GOP's executive director said Sunday.
Nick Klitzing said the state GOP on its own found 18 of its emails on the website DCLeaks.com. The New York Times reported the website was an outlet that U.S. intelligence officials and private cybersecurity companies believe was created by a unit controlled by the GRU, Russia's military intelligence agency. |
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#684 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mansfield
Posts: 27,515
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Surely most people in the US government, and even the Democrats must be embarrased as hell and facepalming every time he opens his mouth now. Completely distrusting the US security agencies- against the view of literally everyone else- only a few days before he comes president isn't even funny now. They surely must be well advanced in their plots for how to get rid of him already. Surely they don't want a president that trusts Assange and Putin more than the CIA and FBI.
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#685 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
Some posters were saying that the Russian military is largely ineffective. I mentioned Crimea and eastern Ukraine as a proof that it is far from ineffective.
Also the Russians stired up racial tensions between Kiev and the local russian population |
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#686 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,313
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According to the WSJ trump and his companies owe $1bn with a significant part guaranteed personally by trump.
Wonder how many more scams he has to divert taxpayer money into his own pocket |
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#687 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,736
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Intel chiefs “even more resolute” on Russian election meddling findings
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...g-findings/#p3 Quote:
"We plan to brief the Congress and release an unclassified version of this report early next week, with due deference to the protection of highly fragile sources and methods," Clapper said in his opening statement. "We have invested billions, and we put people's lives at risk to get such information. If we were to expose how we got this, we could just kiss that off. We're going to be as forthcoming as possible."
. . . While Clapper said it was almost certain that no votes had been changed by hacking, he noted there was no way to determine the full impact of Russia's information campaign on voters' opinions—"We in the Intelligence Community can't tally that." . . . In response to a question from the committee on the role of "fake news" disinformation in Russia's election meddling, Clapper said, "Without getting too far in front of the headlights of [the upcoming report], this was a multifaceted campaign—the hacking was only one part of it. It also entailed classical propaganda, disinformation, and fake news." Clapper acknowledged that the same sort of campaign was ongoing in Europe now, around the upcoming French and German elections . . . Graham was particularly angry at Trump for being overly critical and disrespectful of the intelligence community. "You don't want to undermine those people serving in this arena," he said . . . Russia has used the state-funded RT broadcast service and other outlets to more aggressively spread its version of the global narrative over the past few years. The country has reportedly even used "troll factories" to create confusion and support nationalist populism in several European countries. |
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#688 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
According to the WSJ trump and his companies owe $1bn with a significant part guaranteed personally by trump.
Wonder how many more scams he has to divert taxpayer money into his own pocket |
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#689 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 15,155
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Is it possible he won't be able to fully divest himself from his business interests in time to take the oath?
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#690 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,933
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Quote:
Is it possible he won't be able to fully divest himself from his business interests in time to take the oath?
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#691 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,736
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Quote:
It's very likely - most probable in fact. That's why they're just hoping that other stuff (hacking, emails, sniping at national security services) will divert attention from this, until it's too late for the media to raise the massive concern about the conflicts of interest, contravening the emoluments clause etc.
“No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us...rest.html?_r=0 http://www.heritage.org/constitution...luments-clause Specifically this “Corporations owned or controlled by a foreign government are presumptively foreign states under the Emoluments Clause.” Given that some of trumps companies do business with entities controlled by foreign governments and people with ties to them. The ventures include multimillion-dollar real estate arrangements — with Mr. Trump’s companies either as a full owner or a “branding” partner — in Ireland and Uruguay. The Bank of China is a tenant in Trump Tower and a lender for another building in Midtown Manhattan where Mr. Trump has a significant partnership interest. |
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#692 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,431
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So Trump is tweeting about The Apprentice ratings. He's an exec producer, so I guess this is another thing at which he's failed.
What a nightmare these ignorant, small-minded people have given us by voting for this clown. |
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#693 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
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Quote:
What a nightmare these ignorant, small-minded people have given us by voting for this clown.
Start engaging instead of sneering and things might actually start improving. Also help if the DNC picked a decent candidate. |
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#694 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,431
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Quote:
This is why we will get eight years of the clown.
Start engaging instead of sneering and things might actually start improving. Also help if the DNC picked a decent candidate. Also, don't assume I'm not engaged, and I'll sneer at people when they deserve it. Trump voters deserve ridicule. |
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#695 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,778
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Quote:
We'll get eight years because people are small-minded and ignorant? Yes, if it happens that will be the reason. Clinton was a fine candidate, it didn't help that she was going against someone who had no issue telling lies every 5 minutes, catering to conservatives racism and misogyny, and promising people things that are impossible.
Also, don't assume I'm not engaged, and I'll sneer at people when they deserve it. Trump voters deserve ridicule. |
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#696 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,226
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Quote:
This seems inevitable to honest. It'll quickly be determined, if it hasn't already, that Trump's presidency is against the national security interests of the country. I suspect they'll move to first undermine his presidency by leaking all of his skeletons, which they undoubtedly know about, in an attempt to make his continuation in the job untenable.
Thta just leaves his cabinet of fellow ideologues, to declare him mentally unfit, or the Republican Congress to risk its own right wing voters and impeach him. Both of which are unlikely. Its death or a debilitating illness, , a well placed banana skin , polonium , or 4 years of Congress trying to make him irrelevant - by ignoring his budget and policies . |
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#697 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
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Quote:
So Trump is tweeting about The Apprentice ratings. He's an exec producer, so I guess this is another thing at which he's failed.
What a nightmare these ignorant, small-minded people have given us by voting for this clown. |
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#698 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,431
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BiB Well that pretty much sums why your opinion can be safely ignored.
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#699 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
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"Republican Opposition To Repealing Obamacare Without A Replacement Grows":
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/...ithout-a-repla |
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#700 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: usa
Posts: 2,431
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Quote:
"Republican Opposition To Repealing Obamacare Without A Replacement Grows":
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulmcleod/...ithout-a-repla And he campaigned for having Mexico pay for his big wall, but now he's saying he'll ask Congress (taxpayers) to fund it. What a liar. |
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