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Old 20-12-2016, 01:41
bollywood
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Genuinely think Trump is going to be a very different politician to the establishment we have been used too. I'll freely admit if im wrong if he does a bad job (and no doubt many people will offer some vast resistance to this post which is fair enough).

How is it different to have Washington insiders and very conservative appointments?
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Old 20-12-2016, 01:43
MARTYM8
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So what? It's America. People can express their opinions, TG.
Perhaps you think shouting and bawling like that is the way to engage in debate - I beg to differ.
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Old 20-12-2016, 01:50
johnny_boi_UK
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This video from the Wisconsin electoral college vote just shows what these electors have had to put up with just for ratifying what the people of the state voted for. Warning - these videos contains crazy liberals shouting and bawling.

https://youtu.be/4BjgEsK4LbE

https://youtu.be/02VOJfiFTts

Similar scenes were repeated in several states.

Seems for all their efforts all the electors got a mere 10 dollars each plus travel expenses!
I love the "my america"...
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Old 20-12-2016, 02:15
MARTYM8
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I love the "my america"...

Of course it's HER America - but not the America of the majority of people in her state who voted apparently!
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Old 20-12-2016, 02:29
mimik1uk
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Of course it's HER America - but not the America of the majority of people in her state who voted apparently!
what state would that be Marty ?

she is originally from illinois i believe and now lives in New York

both of which she won

edit : apologies i just realised you weren't talking about clinton, easy mistake to make tho as you normally deflect to her to cover for anything negative about Trump
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Old 20-12-2016, 02:30
johnny_boi_UK
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Of course it's HER America - but not the America of the majority of people in her state who voted apparently!
also the game of thrones chant

Shame! Shame! Shame!
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Old 20-12-2016, 03:30
thenetworkbabe
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Trump is still delusional

“We had a massive landslide victory, as you know, in the Electoral College. I guess the final numbers are now at 306,” Trump said in an interview on Fox News Sunday.

A statement from his transition team on Friday in response to reports of the CIA assessment said, “The election ended a long time ago in one of the biggest Electoral College victories in history

http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/12/11/...or-some-facts/


Back in the world of facts
Only 12 out of 58 Presidents had a lower majority of electoral college votes.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7484176.html
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...vote.html?_r=1
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Old 20-12-2016, 03:40
bspace
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I love the "my america"...
Dig those crazy liberals and their little englander mentalities
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Old 20-12-2016, 06:56
Dotheboyshall
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How is it different to have Washington insiders and very conservative appointments?
Most of whom have strong connections with Washington insiders
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Old 20-12-2016, 07:07
mimik1uk
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Most of whom have strong connections with Washington insiders
imagine if clinton had won

we would have a cabinet full of goldman sachs execs, party donors, career politicians and representatives from companies supporting corporate globalisation




oh wait ...
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Old 20-12-2016, 07:43
Angie_Plasty
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I heard Trump made his bankruptcy lawyer the new Ambassador to Israel and made a billionaire sports team owner the new Secretary of the US Army.

If this trend of putting wholly unsuitable people into high office crosses the pond we might soon see Roman Abramovich as First Lord of the Admiralty, or Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary.
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:27
batdude_uk1
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also the game of thrones chant

Shame! Shame! Shame!
Yeah that was funny!

Who knew Game of Thrones was actually a documentary!
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:44
blueisthecolour
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You could argue that it's better having independent wealthy people in cabinet than people that are beholden to wealthy people. It's the whole 'poacher turned game keeper' argument - if you really wanted to remove vested interests from politics who better to do than people who know how the system work but aren't dependent on it for their success.

I'm not saying that's what Trump's doing - I honestly think he's making things up as he goes along and is just picking people like him.

The only thought that gives me any comfort is that now that Trump has kick the establishment door in hopefully it will mean that better people will be able to walk through it in the future.
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Old 20-12-2016, 08:55
njp
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You could argue that it's better having independent wealthy people in cabinet than people that are beholden to wealthy people. It's the whole 'poacher turned game keeper' argument - if you really wanted to remove vested interests from politics who better to do than people who know how the system work but aren't dependent on it for their success.
I think it's rather naive to suppose that a lot of wealthy people aren't beholden to other wealthy people and institutions for their continuing prosperity.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:05
dizzie
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I think it's rather naive to suppose that a lot of wealthy people aren't beholden to other wealthy people and institutions for their continuing prosperity.
Agree, the idea that appointing these business owners, in the belief that they are somehow entirely financially independent of other financial institutions, or other businesses that have provided investment and support, is ridiculously naive. These people are often far more beholden, and at a much higher level, when it comes to them being granted land use, tax incentives, financial concessions etc.

The fact that a bunch of millionaires and billionaires, with significant international business interests and investments, now hold the purse strings, and can adapt actual laws and regulations at will, to benefit their own interest, and themselves financially, is surely a much greater threat to the well-being of the country, than someone who is considered an 'insider', but has never had significant financial rewards for a lifetime of public service.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:08
mimik1uk
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agreed dizzie

for example, does anyone think Tillerson is going to be objective over russian sanctions when those sanctions cost Exxon a shedload of money?
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:27
Dotheboyshall
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I think it's rather naive to suppose that a lot of wealthy people aren't beholden to other wealthy people and institutions for their continuing prosperity.
We are all in it together.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:29
paulschapman
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agreed dizzie

for example, does anyone think Tillerson is going to be objective over russian sanctions when those sanctions cost Exxon a shedload of money?
Does anyone think that the hacking of the DNC was not based on a cynical calculation that it would aid a pro-Russia (and therefore anti-sanctions) government gain power.

Not only that but when you look at the Russian business connections that both Trump and Tillerson have - do you really think that Russia is not above using that as leverage to get what it wants. Russian authorities are not above using any number of questionable acts to seize the businesses of those who cross them.
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:35
mimik1uk
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Does anyone think that the hacking of the DNC was not based on a cynical calculation that it would aid a pro-Russia (and therefore anti-sanctions) government gain power.

Not only that but when you look at the Russian business connections that both Trump and Tillerson have - do you really think that Russia is not above using that as leverage to get what it wants. Russian authorities are not above using any number of questionable acts to seize the businesses of those who cross them.
been saying for the last couple of weeks that the sanctions issue gave russia a huge motivation to interfere but that keeps getting shot down as a factor by our resident trumpers
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Old 20-12-2016, 09:38
paulschapman
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been saying for the last couple of weeks that the sanctions issue gave russia a huge motivation to interfere but that keeps getting shot down as a factor by our resident trumpers
If you ever want to understand what is going on in this world - follow the money.
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:09
dizzie
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If you ever want to understand what is going on in this world - follow the money.
Or the oil! American will potentially achieve energy independence in less than 4 years. I promise this will be a problem for those Middle East countries who used to have lots of money, influence with the West etc. Let's face it, Syria as a problem exists because it doesn't have much oil, and American didn't need to enter into the conflict to preserve their energy interests. Compare and contrast to how Russia's dominance over Europe's energy needs have affected foreign policies here.
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:14
nomad2king
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Whoever released the info, that is all they did. They acted as a whistle-blower. It just exposed what the Democrats had been up to. It is the Democrats themselves that are responsible for what they got up to, and nobody else. Even then, how many voters voted differently because of it? There would be large sections of Democratic voters that would always vote for them no matter what. Just as in the UK with the Labour party.
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Old 20-12-2016, 10:23
mimik1uk
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Whoever released the info, that is all they did. They acted as a whistle-blower. It just exposed what the Democrats had been up to. It is the Democrats themselves that are responsible for what they got up to, and nobody else. Even then, how many voters voted differently because of it? There would be large sections of Democratic voters that would always vote for them no matter what. Just as in the UK with the Labour party.
the vast majority of the information released was garbage tbh, we kept getting told every week that the smoking gun was coming but it never did. but it created an environemnt where the story itself became so big that even the MSM couldn't ignore it.

that served to perpetuate the distrust people had in clinton and alot of people didn't seem to know the difference between what wikileaks were releasing and the clinton e-mail issue and the FBI investigation

when the election came down to as few as 100,000 votes in three states who knows what difference it made? especially given one of the main reasons clinton lost was because democrat turnout in those states was alot lower than expected and directly related to that distrust
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Old 20-12-2016, 11:20
nomad2king
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It is the whingers that are claiming that the info mattered. Any distrust might have had more to do with what wasn't revealed. IE what else was going on that was still hidden?

Just because X made an attempt to access info, doesn't mean they succeeded and doesn't mean that if they were successful, that they released it.

Regardless of whether or not Democratic voters turned out to vote, it still required the Republican voters to turn out.
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Old 20-12-2016, 11:24
mimik1uk
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It is the whingers that are claiming that the info mattered. Any distrust might have had more to do with what wasn't revealed. IE what else was going on that was still hidden?

Just because X made an attempt to access info, doesn't mean they succeeded and doesn't mean that if they were successful, that they released it.

Regardless of whether or not Democratic voters turned out to vote, it still required the Republican voters to turn out.
and none of that comes close to contradicting any of the points i made

in fact your first point probably adds to my argument, the situation around the e-mails and how big the story became meant that people did assume that there must be more incriminating things not being released
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