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American Politics Discussion Thread |
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#201 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,249
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I never really got the expression "whiny liberal" that i have seen US commentators use, before this Trump ascension. Its like a persistent whine, not one like a whimpering of a small sick puppy that makes you want hold it and make it better but like a small spoilt child that doesn't get its own way and then has to tell everyone else about it.
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#202 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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Quote:
I never really got the expression "whiny liberal" that i have seen US commentators use, before this Trump ascension. Its like a persistent whine, not one like a whimpering of a small sick puppy that makes you want hold it and make it better but like a small spoilt child that doesn't get its own way and then has to tell everyone else about it.
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#203 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
To be fair, conservatives were fairly voluble in their discontent during the Obama years (and the Clinton years before that). It's the tendency of the defeated side to have a good whinge when they lose. I think it's more intense this time because a) Trump was such a joke candidate and they can't believe he won, b) Hillary won the popular vote by such a wide margin, there's a real sense of resentment that the Republicans won and c) There is a genuine feeling (one I'm quite sympathetic to) that Trump is going to be such a catastrophically bad president that they are fearful about what's to come. You may disagree with the liberals, but it's not hard to see why they're so upset.
You only have to look I think it was at the last debate between Hillary and Trump, when she was asked would she accept the results of the election, and Trump came out with his "maybe, I will let you know" statement, there was outrage at his statement (and perhaps rightly so), but now look at was and is happening, you are having her side not accepting the result, and where is she? We haven't heard from her at all, she should be saying stop all of this nonsense, and accept the result of the election, but nope, nothing. |
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#204 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 3,125
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Quote:
I never really got the expression "whiny liberal" that i have seen US commentators use, before this Trump ascension. Its like a persistent whine, not one like a whimpering of a small sick puppy that makes you want hold it and make it better but like a small spoilt child that doesn't get its own way and then has to tell everyone else about it.
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#205 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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The thing is, that is quite understandable, but how many of these people would be outraged if it were the other way round, say Hillary was President elect, and Trumps supporters were saying she was not really the President, and were trying to fund ways to stop here from becoming President??
You only have to look I think it was at the last debate between Hillary and Trump, when she was asked would she accept the results of the election, and Trump came out with his "maybe, I will let you know" statement, there was outrage at his statement (and perhaps rightly so), but now look at was and is happening, you are having her side not accepting the result, and where is she? We haven't heard from her at all, she should be saying stop all of this nonsense, and accept the result of the election, but nope, nothing. |
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#206 |
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 10,778
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Quote:
You are a complete disgrace that has no idea what is going on with this country.
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#207 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
I'm afraid this is just the way it is in America now. It's become such a deeply polarised place, the losing side whinges and gripes about the result. It's nothing new, though. The Republicans never accepted Bill Clinton as a 'legitimate' president. The Democrats hated George W Bush. The Republicans hated Obama (even questioning whether he was born in the US). The Democrats will hate Trump. It'll calm down a bit once he takes office but there will always be plenty of whining.
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#208 |
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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Quote:
I didn't followed this Birther movement thing all that closely, I know Trump was quite highly active in it, was there many more Republicans involved in it?
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#209 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 216
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Quote:
I never really got the expression "whiny liberal" that i have seen US commentators use, before this Trump ascension. Its like a persistent whine, not one like a whimpering of a small sick puppy that makes you want hold it and make it better but like a small spoilt child that doesn't get its own way and then has to tell everyone else about it.
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#210 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
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Quote:
I'm afraid this is just the way it is in America now. It's become such a deeply polarised place, the losing side whinges and gripes about the result. It's nothing new, though. The Republicans never accepted Bill Clinton as a 'legitimate' president. The Democrats hated George W Bush. The Republicans hated Obama (even questioning whether he was born in the US). The Democrats will hate Trump. It'll calm down a bit once he takes office but there will always be plenty of whining.
called for endless pointless recounts in states where there was a small but solid lead for one candidate Sought to intimidate and harass electoral college voters for simply voting for the candidate their state voted for Called for civil disobedience to disrupt the inauguration Tried to claim the election result was illegitimate because some foreign government hacked the election and Blamed everyone else for their loss except their own mistakes. That is the difference - it's unprecedented in recent times. |
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#211 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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its also probably the first time the winning side has claimed the election was rigged
that there were millions of illegal votes that they would have won by more if they had tried that they won by a landslide when it was something like 13th out of 18 in terms of victory margins since WW2 that have reneged on almost every promise they made to get elected on before they have even taken office |
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#212 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 24,735
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Quote:
called for endless pointless recounts in states where there was a small but solid lead for one candidate
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Sought to intimidate and harass electoral college voters for simply voting for the candidate their state voted for
The purpose of the electoral college is not just to simply rubber stamp what the state voted - but to consider if the person they voted for was appropriate for Command - in Chief. It was created for precisely the situation we are in now - where a person is voted in on a populous programme - but unsuited to the job.Quote:
Tried to claim the election result was illegitimate because some foreign government hacked the election and
Or to ensure that a foreign government has not interfered with the result of the election, which is not the same thing.Quote:
That is the difference - it's unprecedented in recent times.
So is the FBI announcing an investigation into a leading candidate so close to the election and based on no evidence whatsoever. Trumps lead was not so great that such things could not make a difference.
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#213 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 69,134
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Quote:
its also probably the first time the winning side has claimed the election was rigged
that there were millions of illegal votes that they would have won by more if they had tried that they won by a landslide when it was something like 13th out of 18 in terms of victory margins since WW2 that have reneged on almost every promise they made to get elected on before they have even taken office Hardly giving him s chance are you?' |
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#214 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 21,748
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Quote:
Not a fan of Trump then?
Hardly giving him s chance are you?' how about discussing specifics rather than meaningless platitudes like "lets give him a chance" ? i'm judging him on his hypocrisy, his flip flopping over promises he made and on the people he is appointing to his cabinet what exactly are you basing "he might change" on ? |
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#215 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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Quote:
This is probably the first time that the losing side has
called for endless pointless recounts in states where there was a small but solid lead for one candidate Sought to intimidate and harass electoral college voters for simply voting for the candidate their state voted for Called for civil disobedience to disrupt the inauguration Tried to claim the election result was illegitimate because some foreign government hacked the election and Blamed everyone else for their loss except their own mistakes. That is the difference - it's unprecedented in recent times. If you're trying to suggest that this is all happening because 'liberals' are simply sore losers, and in contrast stoical conservatives just suck it up and accept defeat with good grace if they lose, then I don't think you've been paying attention to the Republican party for much of the last twenty years. I suppose it's possible this time it might have reached a new level of hysteria because Trump is a particularly horrifying election-winner for many, so the reaction is just that more intense. But the rest of it all seems pretty much par for the course. Maybe you just notice it more this time because you're more sympathetic to the winner? |
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#216 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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Why is trump holding rallies with the faithful?
Why is trump keeping his personal security team? Why is trump unwilling to have press talks, why do his supporters talk of lugenpresse? Why has trump given up on trying to drain the swamp? |
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#217 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Apologies if this has already been posted but this map shows just how little of the US voted for Hillary. The democrats have a major problem. Their "message" simply does not resonate with ordinary Americans. And Labour have the same problem here. They need to have a major re-think of everything.
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#218 |
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
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Quote:
Apologies if this has already been posted but this map shows just how little of the US voted for Hillary.
Millions more people voted for Hillary than for Trump. |
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#219 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 21,645
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Quote:
Apologies if this has already been posted but this map shows just how little of the US voted for Hillary.
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democrats have a major problem. Their "message" simply does not resonate with ordinary Americans. And Labour have the same problem here. They need to have a major re-think of everything.
And by "major re-think of everything", you presumably mean that they should lie at every opportunity, use twitter like a not especially bright seven-year-old might, make countless promises they cannot and will not keep, deny science, endorse multiple conspiracy theories... did I miss something?
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#220 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Yes but in most areas of the US, more people voted for Trump. The Democrats need to have appeal beyond big cities if they want to get into power. It doesn't matter how many people vote for them in California and the North East if they can't get votes in "flyover country".
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#221 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,933
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I guess they're all basically rhetorical, but I'll give them a shot! Quote:
Why is trump holding rallies with the faithful?
Quote:
Why is trump keeping his personal security team?
Oh boy, this is a deeply dodgy one, isn't it?! It speaks of a massively paranoid man - who's not even started the most basic preparations for moving to DC, and he also seems perfectly content paralysing part of one of the busiest parts of NYC, using New York's budget to furnish him with extra security - staffed by NYC cops, and not the secret service. Having a security team that won't acquiesce completely with the will of the protectee (given the SS have specific protocols that they follow) is clearly too much bother for Trump, who would prefer a group of people who say 'how high?' when he says 'jump'!Quote:
Why is trump unwilling to have press talks, why do his supporters talk of lugenpresse?
It prevents him having to answer questions about policies for as long as possible. His team are working very hard to establish a 'new normal' where the press won't have unfettered access to him, as has been the case for countless presidents before him. BTW, it seems that Trump Tower allows for him to remain hidden from view, and he plans to continue away from press view for as long as he can. Plus, let's be utterly frank here, the fact that 'lugenpresse' is a word being used is because the nazis (oops I mean 'alt-right' - that's what their rebrand calls them, isn't it?) have always used this disparaging term to demonise the people reporting on their actions and attitudes. It's not an accident that the Nazi party in the 1930's adopted this term to discredit those reporting on their atrocities, and it's no accident now that Trump supporters scream the term at the press pens, even after they won the election! Quote:
Why has trump given up on trying to drain the swamp?
Easy - he IS the swamp! And he's planning on filling it with his cronies and sycophants - no swamp draining here, nothing to see, move on!!!
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#222 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
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Quote:
And yet she got 3 million more votes than he did. It's a paradox.
And by "major re-think of everything", you presumably mean that they should lie at every opportunity, use twitter like a not especially bright seven-year-old might, make countless promises they cannot and will not keep, deny science, endorse multiple conspiracy theories... did I miss something? |
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#223 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 14,282
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Quote:
Yes but in most areas of the US, more people voted for Trump. The Democrats need to have appeal beyond big cities if they want to get into power. It doesn't matter how many people vote for them in California and the North East if they can't get votes in "flyover country".
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#224 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,866
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Quote:
Apologies if this has already been posted but this map shows just how little of the US voted for Hillary. The democrats have a major problem. Their "message" simply does not resonate with ordinary Americans. And Labour have the same problem here. They need to have a major re-think of everything.
http://uk.businessinsider.com/2016-e...oral-college-5 |
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#225 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 21,645
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Quote:
Yeah, the use of maps like this, to make the sort of point you are making, is particularly daft. It's people who vote, not tracts of land.
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