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A few questions about Jews/Nazism/Concentration Camps
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annette kurten
19-12-2016
episode 1

episode 2

episode 3

episode 4

episode 5

there`s also a series that i deleted but i`ll find and link if you wish that is a set of biographies of hitler and his henchmen - that might be the title - it`s extremely good.
Sife Lucks
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by annette kurten:
“episode 1

episode 2

episode 3

episode 4

episode 5

there`s also a series that i deleted but i`ll find and link if you wish that is a set of biographies of hitler and his henchmen - that might be the title - it`s extremely good.”

Thanks very much I appreciate it.
annette kurten
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Sife Lucks:
“Thanks very much I appreciate it. ”

my pleasure.

shout if you want any more recommendations.
spiney2
19-12-2016
Or u cd read william shirer's book ''inside the third reich'' ....... Wasn't the point to describe hitler in just one sentence ?
Elyan
19-12-2016
Private Baldrick: No, the thing is: The way I see it, these days there's a war on, right? And, ages ago, there wasn't a war on, right? So, there must have been a moment when there not being a war on went away, right? And there being a war on came along. So, what I want to know is: How did we get from the one case of affairs to the other case of affairs?

Captain Blackadder: Do you mean, "how did the war start?"
Cheetah666
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“There is a film out at the moment called 'Denial' about a court case where an accuser has to prove the Holocaust happened so they can sue a Holocaust denier.



Sounds interesting and might be educational to the OP and anyone interested in the subject.”

That's not what happened. Lipstadt didn't have to prove the Holocaust happened so she could sue a Holocaust denier, she had to prove it because she was being sued by a Holocaust denier. David Irving sued her for libel for calling him a Holocaust denier and in order to win she had to prove his version of the Holocaust, (where nobody was deliberately killed and the deaths in the camps were unfortunate but unintended side effects of war privations), to be factually incorrect.
Chihiro77
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Sife Lucks:
“I'm surprised at some of the hostile replies I've had.

The Wikipedia articles (and other websites) are HUGE walls of text. Yes, that's great and very informative but all I simply am looking for is a summary. I KNOW you can't possibly compress everything into a small paragraph but one poster above managed to give a few paragraphs which was detailed enough and was what I was looking for and also gives me something to work with in terms of web searches, specific names, dates etc to research.

I can't believe this is the reaction someone gets for wanting to learn something. Jeez. Unbelievable reaction.”

How dare you start a discussion on a discussion board! I've never seen such laziness!
RobinOfLoxley
19-12-2016
It should have been in Advice, rather than GD.

I was tempted to Alert the Mods, but then I thought "Aww, it's Christmas".
Philip Wales
19-12-2016
To the OP while your correct that the Jews made up the largest portion of concentration camp inmates, there were others. In fact in the beginning the camps were for political dissidents and other undesirables. In the end Jews, gypsies, prisoners of war etc ended up in concentration and death camps.

I read an article by a Polish prisoner of war who spent 5 years in various camps, and he points to the Jews as being generally the worst prisoners when it came to telling on the other prisoners, stealing food etc. So not every things black and white. But at the end of the day, some people will do anything to survive, would any of us be any better?
skp20040
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by koantemplation:
“There is a film out at the moment called 'Denial' about a court case where an accuser has to prove the Holocaust happened so they can sue a Holocaust denier.



Sounds interesting and might be educational to the OP and anyone interested in the subject.”

One thing I don't like is places where they have made it illegal to deny the holocaust, whilst it may be unpalatable to hear they should be allowed to speak if only so people can know what the person is all about
academia
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“To the OP while your correct that the Jews made up the largest portion of concentration camp inmates, there were others. In fact in the beginning the camps were for political dissidents and other undesirables. In the end Jews, gypsies, prisoners of war etc ended up in concentration and death camps.

I read an article by a Polish prisoner of war who spent 5 years in various camps, and he points to the Jews as being generally the worst prisoners when it came to telling on the other prisoners, stealing food etc. So not every things black and white. But at the end of the day, some people will do anything to survive, would any of us be any better?”

Only about ten % of Ravensbruck camp were Jewish, probably because it was not originally designed to be a death camp. There were national from all over Europe there.

As for your Polish inmate's memoirs, I've never heard of one set of inmates being worse or better than another. The SS put all the inmates in horrific impossible situations - it's probably best not to judge them as you say.
TheGreatKatsby
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by CravenHaven:
“why don't you just look up wikipedia "antisemitism", "kristallnacht", "concentration camp"”

Did you see this story yesterday?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...llnacht-pogrom

They've found a photo that appears to show Herschel Grynszpan actually survived the war.
sorcha_healy27
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“To the OP while your correct that the Jews made up the largest portion of concentration camp inmates, there were others. In fact in the beginning the camps were for political dissidents and other undesirables. In the end Jews, gypsies, prisoners of war etc ended up in concentration and death camps.

I read an article by a Polish prisoner of war who spent 5 years in various camps, and he points to the Jews as being generally the worst prisoners when it came to telling on the other prisoners, stealing food etc. So not every things black and white. But at the end of the day, some people will do anything to survive, would any of us be any better?”

Bib the poles were massively antisemitic so I'd take that with a massive pinch of salt.

Most of the poles welcomed the Germans initially and were willing to give up their Jewish compatriots for their belongings. It was only when the Nazis started rounding up poles that they became outraged but they didn't give a toss about the Jews suffering. .
annette kurten
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Bib the poles were massively antisemitic so I'd take that with a massive pinch of salt.

Most of the poles welcomed the Germans initially and were willing to give up their Jewish compatriots for their belongings. It was only when the Nazis started rounding up poles that they became outraged but they didn't give a toss about the Jews suffering. .”

anti semitism at that time was global.
Johnbee
19-12-2016
They really have come crawling out of the woodwork haven't they?
sorcha_healy27
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by annette kurten:
“anti semitism at that time was global.”

I was responding to a specific point about Poland. I'm not denying antisemitism wasn't global but it's a historical fact that it was particularly bad in eastern Europe.

There were pogroms against the Jews in eastern Europe long before the Nazis came to power.
annette kurten
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“I was responding to a specific point about Poland. I'm not denying antisemitism wasn't global but it's a historical fact that it was particularly bad in eastern Europe.

There were pogroms against the Jews in eastern Europe long before the Nazis came to power.”

and i`m responding to your post that`s how it works.
skp20040
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“I was responding to a specific point about Poland. I'm not denying antisemitism wasn't global but it's a historical fact that it was particularly bad in eastern Europe.

There were pogroms against the Jews in eastern Europe long before the Nazis came to power.”

With that I would agree , it was the Polish government who first wanted to deport the Jews in Poland to Madagascar in 1937 an idea later taken up by the Nazis before they moved on to concentration camps.
sorcha_healy27
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by annette kurten:
“and i`m responding to your post that`s how it works.”

Yes but I fail to see the relevance in the context of the point I was making Annette

I know perfectly well how it works thanks
annette kurten
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Yes but I fail to see the relevance in the context of the point I was making Annette

I know perfectly well how it works thanks”

really?

you said the polish were very anti semitic at the time and i pointed out that anti semitism was a huge global phenomenon and you cannot see the relevance.
Lil Munchkin
19-12-2016
OP there's never a 'too much information' logic that can ever be applied to such an emotive subject. Education, and educating oneself, should always be must where this particular issue is concerned.

I had my Father and an Uncle from his entire family who survived the camps, my Father managed to escape by a miracle along with is Brother, they were but children themselves. Five generations of his family were brutally tortured, starved, marched and beaten and subjected to the worst conditions possible. My Father died earlier this year, and to his dying day, he treated everyone with tolerance and respect.

I think educating yourself on this subject is one of the greatest things you can do. There's loads of information out there.
academia
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by sorcha_healy27:
“Bib the poles were massively antisemitic so I'd take that with a massive pinch of salt.

Most of the poles welcomed the Germans initially and were willing to give up their Jewish compatriots for their belongings. It was only when the Nazis started rounding up poles that they became outraged but they didn't give a toss about the Jews suffering. .”

Did the Poles welcome the Nazis when they were so fiercely nationalistic? Warsaw withstood 18 days of continuing bombing before it surrendered. They never did take to their German overlords.
There would be anti- semitism of course but the tales of the courage of Polish people who helped Jews are legendary. Much like in other Nazi occupied territories. It's hard to guage how people thought about things back then - no one asked them at the time.
Ber
19-12-2016
As said by others, anti-Semitism has been rife in Europe, and other parts of the world for centuries.

Quote:
“Though not part of Roman Catholic dogma, many Christians, including members of the clergy, have held the Jewish people collectively responsible for killing Jesus. As stated in the Boston College Guide to Passion Plays, "Over the course of time, Christians began to accept … that the Jewish people as a whole were responsible for killing Jesus. According to this interpretation, both the Jews present at Jesus Christ's death and the Jewish people collectively and for all time, have committed the sin of deicide, or "god-killing". For 1900 years of Christian-Jewish history, the charge of deicide has led to hatred, violence against and murder of Jews in Europe and America.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jews

Quote:
“Blood libel (also blood accusation)[1][2] is an accusation[3][4][5] that Jews kidnapped and murdered the children of Christians in order to use their blood as part of their religious rituals during Jewish holidays.[1][2][6] Historically, these claims – alongside those of well poisoning and host desecration – have been a major theme of the persecution of Jews in Europe.[4]”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
Jellied Eel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Philip Wales:
“To the OP while your correct that the Jews made up the largest portion of concentration camp inmates, there were others. In fact in the beginning the camps were for political dissidents and other undesirables. In the end Jews, gypsies, prisoners of war etc ended up in concentration and death camps.”

See also-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_c...ionslagern.jpg

Germans, being Germans came up with a simple system to identify undesirables. The camps weren't an exclusively Jewish phenomena, and some of the early death camp work was done on the disabled & mentally ill. Once euthanased, they were no longer a burden on the state.

As for the rest, TL;DR version.. Hitler was a batshit crazy but highly charasmatic leader who surrounded himself with sycophants that went along with his ideas.

Longer version.. He probably got shaped by his experiences in Vienna, the general background of racism and fear of immigration (any of this sounding familiar?) then Germany's defeat in WW1, and the way they were punished by the Treaty of Versailles. Then after the war, he got political with the NSDAP which blamed the Marxists and Jews for pretty much everything.. So rather thoroughly radicalised.

Then came the beer hall killings.. Which probably helped the rise of Hitler's power & the NSDAP, ie an unhealthy mix of alchohol and vitriol. But it worked on a sense that Germany's failure was someone else's fault and he could do a better job. Sadly that didn't result in Hitler's death, but gave him the chance to write 'Mein Kampf' whilst sitting in jail.

That kind of explains Hitler's mindset (batshit crazy) and reminds me that there's a new print of that complete with explanatory notes.. It's not exactly an easy read, but worth it if you want to try to understand the beginnings.

Then after leaving jail, he assumed control of the NSDAP, took advantage of the depression and steadily rose to power. Hopefully it's not something that could ever happen again because thanks to modern communications, it's easier to find out about whats going on and put a stop to it.
Ber
19-12-2016
And before we get to the 'but how did they manage to kill 6 million Jews in the extermination camps' part, the 6 million figure is all Jewish deaths resulting from the Nazi regime - including mass murder in the ghettoes, deaths caused by the forced marches and horrific transportations, and deaths in labour camps from exhaustion, starvation and illness etc.
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