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A few questions about Jews/Nazism/Concentration Camps |
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#51 |
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See also-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_c...ionslagern.jpg Germans, being Germans came up with a simple system to identify undesirables. The camps weren't an exclusively Jewish phenomena, and some of the early death camp work was done on the disabled & mentally ill. Once euthanased, they were no longer a burden on the state. As for the rest, TL;DR version.. Hitler was a batshit crazy but highly charasmatic leader who surrounded himself with sycophants that went along with his ideas. Longer version.. He probably got shaped by his experiences in Vienna, the general background of racism and fear of immigration (any of this sounding familiar?) then Germany's defeat in WW1, and the way they were punished by the Treaty of Versailles. Then after the war, he got political with the NSDAP which blamed the Marxists and Jews for pretty much everything.. So rather thoroughly radicalised. Then came the beer hall killings.. Which probably helped the rise of Hitler's power & the NSDAP, ie an unhealthy mix of alchohol and vitriol. But it worked on a sense that Germany's failure was someone else's fault and he could do a better job. Sadly that didn't result in Hitler's death, but gave him the chance to write 'Mein Kampf' whilst sitting in jail. That kind of explains Hitler's mindset (batshit crazy) and reminds me that there's a new print of that complete with explanatory notes.. It's not exactly an easy read, but worth it if you want to try to understand the beginnings. Then after leaving jail, he assumed control of the NSDAP, took advantage of the depression and steadily rose to power. Hopefully it's not something that could ever happen again because thanks to modern communications, it's easier to find out about whats going on and put a stop to it. |
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#52 |
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As I said in my original post, the articles on those pages are far too long and contain way too much information. I'm just looking for a summary. It would take forever to read those pages.
I suggest you visit a concentration camp and Dachau or Sachsenhausen would be a good start. |
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#53 |
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And before we get to the 'but how did they manage to kill 6 million Jews in the extermination camps' part, the 6 million figure is all Jewish deaths resulting from the Nazi regime - including mass murder in the ghettoes, deaths caused by the forced marches and horrific transportations, and deaths in labour camps from exhaustion, starvation and illness etc.
I can kind of understand people's reluctance to believe the scale of the Holocaust, but there are huge amounts of evidence to show it happened. |
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#54 |
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I saw Mein Kampf when it was performed at a theatre in London years ago where I was working at the time and went in to watch it one evening, it was creepy as all hell as they unfurled Swastikas at one part of the play all round the auditorium to make it part of the performance, it really made your spine shiver
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#55 |
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My stock answer on that one, ie anyone disputing the number of deaths.. If you're quibbling over figures to the nearest hundred thousand, or extrapolating from tonnes of crematorium ash... You're rather missing the point. The Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields only managed a couple of million.
I can kind of understand people's reluctance to believe the scale of the Holocaust, but there are huge amounts of evidence to show it happened. Given that the gas chambers are what most people think of when the holocaust is mentioned, a denyer will be 'It was physically impossible for the Nazi's to murder 6 million people in that timescale with Zyklon B therefore the holocaust is a lie', and produce statistics to verify their claim. Completely (perhaps deliberately) ignoring that the gas chambers were not the start and end of the holocaust |
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#56 |
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I suggest the OP watches the documentary Shoah.
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#57 |
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Completely (perhaps deliberately) ignoring that the gas chambers were not the start and end of the holocaust
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#58 |
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Recent documentary - The Rise and Fall of Hitler (either channel 4 or 5 if you want to check on catch up TV) provides useful context.
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#59 |
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So I've been watching an Anne Frank show today and it was really powerful stuff (I'd recommend anyone to watch it, it was the 2001 TV series 'The Whole Story') but I had a few questions based off of it. I hope they don't sound ignorant but I just don't know that much about that time period. I know there's alot of information online but sometimes you can't really just find a simple answer, every website has huge articles with tons of jargon and references that are a bit overwhelming so I thought I'd maybe see if anyone could explain or answer these in a simpler way -
[snip] Quote:
why don't you just look up wikipedia "antisemitism", "kristallnacht", "concentration camp"
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#60 |
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I can kind of understand people's reluctance to believe the scale of the Holocaust, but there are huge amounts of evidence to show it happened.
Witness statements here relating to Sobibor and Treblinka both camps being just a few miles apart. http://www.holocaustresearchproject....ransports.html http://www.holocaustresearchproject....t/zabecki.html |
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#61 |
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Sure. It's much easier to co-opt as many non-experts as you can and ask them to provide the Janet and John version, or something like the blurb off the back of Antisemitism for Dummies.who wasn't that all that keen on bar-mitzvah etc ad nauseam (*severely abridged edition for the 30-second concentration span set obviously) |
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#62 |
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Sure. It's much easier to co-opt as many non-experts as you can and ask them to provide the Janet and John version, or something like the blurb off the back of Antisemitism for Dummies. |
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#63 |
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i don`t know about the op but i find it difficult to leap in and wade through heavy going stuff i don`t know much about. a few easy steps or links before i get into it eases me in and develops my curiosity to dig deeper, i think it`s a little unfair to mock.
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#64 |
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I don't think the OP was being genuine.
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#65 |
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i was in two minds at first but he`s not been on here trolling and he seemed genuine enough when i posted the link.
Why don't you ask if he's followed any of the links provided? I'm sure he'll be able to give you a summary if he was genuinely interested. |
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#66 |
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Why don't you ask if he's followed any of the links provided? I'm sure he'll be able to give you a summary if he was genuinely interested.
Like we're all going to do a controversial potted opinion piece on jews & WWII. |
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#67 |
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'spect he was lazily thinking a few accounts would self-destruct with the shallow bait.
Like we're all going to do a controversial potted opinion piece on jews & WWII. That appears to be what he was hoping for.If someone asks for an abridged version of a complex subject, like asking for a simplified description of quantum theory, it'd be pretty laughable, but asking people to nutshell such an emotive topic as anti-Semitism smacks of rabble rousing. |
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#68 |
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He showed no interest in your offer for about 40 minutes, returning here to reply to other FMs (more attempts at trolling, IMO) but neglecting to reply to you, who had offered exactly what he was allegedly after. When I pointed out this seeming lack of interest the OP suddenly showed renewed interest.
Why don't you ask if he's followed any of the links provided? I'm sure he'll be able to give you a summary if he was genuinely interested. |
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#69 |
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If someone asks for an abridged version of a complex subject, like asking for a simplified description of quantum theory, it'd be pretty laughable
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#70 |
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Whatever the opposite of an anti-Semite is, is what I am.
All of my favourite authors, film-makers, comedians and commentators are Jewish. I have Jew-envy. I love how most of them approach religion as something to be debated and dissected and discussed rather than something to blindly acquiesce to.There are complex reasons for anti-Semitism but I think this will be the one and only time I'll play the 'jellus' card. They have been, through history, fairly good at everything. ![]() Someone earlier suggested you start with Shylock. I loved watching this with my 14 year old daughter during the Summer (the Pacino version - she's studying it this year so I was giving her a heads-up). She's definitely in the 'The Merchant's a caution against anti-Semitism' camp after seeing that version. So there you are - start there. It's never a chore to watch Al Pacino on screen. After that, if you're starting from nowhere and don't like a lot of reading, do a Netflix search on 'Nazi' 'Hitler' 'Concentration Camp'. Then do the same in YouTube. There are oodles of wonderful, if heart-breaking, documentaries out there. |
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#71 |
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I've been interested in this subject since reading Anne Frank's diary as a teenager. Apart from watching a few documentaries about the concentration camps and reading a few autobiographies of survivors, I wouldn't claim to be particularly knowledgeable on the subject. But it doesn't matter - I know enough to know that the Jews and many others suffered horrendously, and I for one will never forget their suffering, and not only that, I will never turn a blind eye to any racist behaviour that I encounter.
Anne would still be alive now, if she hadn't been destroyed by the Nazis. |
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#72 |
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My stock answer on that one, ie anyone disputing the number of deaths.. If you're quibbling over figures to the nearest hundred thousand, or extrapolating from tonnes of crematorium ash... You're rather missing the point. The Khmer Rouge's Killing Fields only managed a couple of million.
I can kind of understand people's reluctance to believe the scale of the Holocaust, but there are huge amounts of evidence to show it happened. |
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#73 |
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I've been interested in this subject since reading Anne Frank's diary as a teenager. Apart from watching a few documentaries about the concentration camps and reading a few autobiographies of survivors, I wouldn't claim to be particularly knowledgeable on the subject. But it doesn't matter - I know enough to know that the Jews and many others suffered horrendously, and I for one will never forget their suffering, and not only that, I will never turn a blind eye to any racist behaviour that I encounter.
Anne would still be alive now, if she hadn't been destroyed by the Nazis. And there were 200,000 OTHER Dutch in hiding by 1944-45, the Onderduikers, avoiding both arrest for their race, and forced labour transfer to Germany... |
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#74 |
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Maybe. She'd be 86-87...and Holland was about to drop off the edge of all ready stringent rationing into virtual famine in the winter of 1944. Not only would have taken a few years off the end of the Frank's lives...we might simply never heard of her, she never intended her diary for publication...
And there were 200,000 OTHER Dutch in hiding by 1944-45, the Onderduikers, avoiding both arrest for their race, and forced labour transfer to Germany... |
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#75 |
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Yes but the deprivations of the camps tended to winnow out the weak, among populations already half starved by the time they were shopped. There will always be the longer-lived among us...but remember just how few multiple Queen's Telegram recipients there have been among the many millions of Britons.
Also-over the years as Shoah survivors gravitated to Israel, that nation has ploughed great resources into public medicine to look after them. Their greater percentage survival rate is just the statistical outcome of Israel's excellent public healthcare system |
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Sure. It's much easier to co-opt as many non-experts as you can and ask them to provide the Janet and John version, or something like the blurb off the back of Antisemitism for Dummies.
All of my favourite authors, film-makers, comedians and commentators are Jewish. I have Jew-envy. I love how most of them approach religion as something to be debated and dissected and discussed rather than something to blindly acquiesce to.