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Power Cuts |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 350
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Power Cuts
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-year-warn-mps
As a result of past CO2 reduction policies we could be looking at power cuts next winter. “While nobody questions the noble intentions behind these interventions, it is clear that a perfect coincidence of numerous policies designed to reduce Britain’s carbon dioxide emissions has had the unintended effect of hollowing out the reliability of the electricity generating sector,” For those of us with a reasonable understanding of how a grid system works ythis comes as no suprise and it's not going to be pretty. |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-year-warn-mps
As a result of past CO2 reduction policies we could be looking at power cuts next winter. “While nobody questions the noble intentions behind these interventions, it is clear that a perfect coincidence of numerous policies designed to reduce Britain’s carbon dioxide emissions has had the unintended effect of hollowing out the reliability of the electricity generating sector,” For those of us with a reasonable understanding of how a grid system works ythis comes as no suprise and it's not going to be pretty. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lincs
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I am surprised that Brexit has not been blamed yet.
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 350
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Quote:
Could be is not the same as will be.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,925
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Right, so a couple of car batteries, some caravan lighting circuits, an inverter for those annoying things that don't have a 12V version, some solar panels to keep everything charged up and a regular supply of carrots, not just for when the lights go out, but for all other times because you have those solar panels in your windows blocking the light.
And beans, obviously. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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Quote:
Right, so a couple of car batteries, some caravan lighting circuits, an inverter for those annoying things that don't have a 12V version, some solar panels to keep everything charged up and a regular supply of carrots, not just for when the lights go out, but for all other times because you have those solar panels in your windows blocking the light.
And beans, obviously. Seriously though, at the end of the last cold snap grid demand was in amber coal and nuclear were running flat out, CCGT was red lining and wind output was less than a giga Watt, it can exceed 5gW. In short we were a breakdown away from power cuts because the grid has too much wind generation capacity and not enough base load capacity. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Would people be happy with going back to the having cut offs at certain times at night? my grand parents told me about this and couldn't believe it use to happen !
what about the disabled and most vulnerable people!? |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Welcome to Christmas 2017.
Seriously though, at the end of the last cold snap grid demand was in amber coal and nuclear were running flat out, CCGT was red lining and wind output was less than a giga Watt, it can exceed 5gW. In short we were a breakdown away from power cuts because the grid has too much wind generation capacity and not enough base load capacity. ![]() Any of you seen the British TV documentary "Blackout" a few years ago? It was really good and showed what would happen if there was a 24 hour Blackout.. very hard hitting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3UcQj080Zg&t=2848s |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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Quote:
what about the disabled and most vulnerable people!?
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#10 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 350
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So, what is the solution?
![]() Any of you seen the British TV documentary "Blackout" a few years ago? It was really good and showed what would happen if there was a 24 hour Blackout.. very hard hitting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3UcQj080Zg&t=2848s |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Norwich, Tacolneston tx
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What about them? The Tory government has ensured that they cannot afford electricity anyway so it won't make a lot of difference.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Would people be happy with going back to the having cut offs at certain times at night? my grand parents told me about this and couldn't believe it use to happen !
Nowadays with so many more electrical gizmos, it'd come as more of a shock, especially as we're not used to power cuts. Quote:
what about the disabled and most vulnerable people!?
They suffer, and some would probably die. Many people's heating wouldn't work either, because their gas boilers still need power, or water pumps wouldn't work.
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#13 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 48,023
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Reducing emissions is all very well but the prime objective of the electricity generating industry is to ensure the continuity of supply, people aren't going to care how it is generated if their lights and heating go off.
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#14 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Unfortunately, we are all still paying out these crazy subsidies to those who got in before the cut off date.
So we've wasted billions on 'renewables' that could have paid to replace old coal and nuclear power stations. And we're expected to spend billions more to provide reliable power to kick in when it's dark, or the wind isn't blowing. People will die, and all because of regulatory capture by the Greens and the renewable lobby. ps.. this site- http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ gives a handy view of where our power is coming from. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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And we're still paying subsidies to scammers building windmills and 'commercial' solar, or other 'renewable' white elephants. That industry loves to point out how many gigawatts of power installed, but gloss over the variability, and that it can't be used to match demand.
So we've wasted billions on 'renewables' that could have paid to replace old coal and nuclear power stations. And we're expected to spend billions more to provide reliable power to kick in when it's dark, or the wind isn't blowing. People will die, and all because of regulatory capture by the Greens and the renewable lobby. ps.. this site- http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/ gives a handy view of where our power is coming from. It would make more sense to wind coal up a bit and wind down a bit on CCGT and nuclear. |
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#16 |
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It does make you wonder how America do it, they are very gadget heavy yet the whole of Britain is probably the size of Texas.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Do you want to risk it not that there is much that can be done short term.
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#18 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Looking at that grid snapshot it seems that they are over stressing nuclear and gas.
It would make more sense to wind coal up a bit and wind down a bit on CCGT and nuclear. Plus there's been some issues I think with the interconnecters to France, and we've been exporting power via Netherlands.. Presumably because that's more profitable than selling here. The whole energy debacle's becoming a bad joke though. Governments are supposed to protect consumers from market failures, yet with energy, government has created the failure and subsidy regime that's lead to troughers like these- http://order-order.com/people/mark-shorrock/ A well connected husband & wife team who've trousered millions in subsidies, and want more via the Swansea tidal lagoon. In any real market, that kind of 'related party transaction' would have investors running for the hills. But when it's taxpayer's money being 'invested', it's all Good.. If only the government had printed money and invested it in building new, nationalised power stations rather than giving it to the banks to lend to 'renewables' scammers. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Quote:
It does make you wonder how America do it, they are very gadget heavy yet the whole of Britain is probably the size of Texas.
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#20 |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
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But 'renewables' have preferential access. And I think most of the coal fleet is still constrained, ie maximum hours they can operate before being shut down under the EU's Diktat.
Plus there's been some issues I think with the interconnecters to France, and we've been exporting power via Netherlands.. Presumably because that's more profitable than selling here. The whole energy debacle's becoming a bad joke though. Governments are supposed to protect consumers from market failures, yet with energy, government has created the failure and subsidy regime that's lead to troughers like these- http://order-order.com/people/mark-shorrock/ A well connected husband & wife team who've trousered millions in subsidies, and want more via the Swansea tidal lagoon. In any real market, that kind of 'related party transaction' would have investors running for the hills. But when it's taxpayer's money being 'invested', it's all Good.. If only the government had printed money and invested it in building new, nationalised power stations rather than giving it to the banks to lend to 'renewables' scammers. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Aug 2005
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Don't we have the ability to buy in electricity from France now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Cross-Channel |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Don't we have the ability to buy in electricity from France now?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC_Cross-Channel |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Norwich, Tacolneston tx
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Yes, we can get up to 2 GW on the France Angleterre interconnector, and another 1 GW on the Netherlands "BritNed" interconnector.
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#24 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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The US grid is one of the least reliable in the developed world.
something in the back of my mind about the 2003 US blackout caused by a branch falling on the wrong bit of cable at the wrong time and some automatic thingy not noticing.And one (just a single city?) in the 70s(?) allegedly done with a matchstick though I suspect that's either a legend of a movie plot. * OK, a bit more complicated than that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northe...ackout_of_2003 combination of trees and software bugs and procedures and a cascading failure |
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#25 |
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,581
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Quote:
Welcome to Christmas 2017.
Seriously though, at the end of the last cold snap grid demand was in amber coal and nuclear were running flat out, CCGT was red lining and wind output was less than a giga Watt, it can exceed 5gW. In short we were a breakdown away from power cuts because the grid has too much wind generation capacity and not enough base load capacity. |
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something in the back of my mind about the 2003 US blackout caused by a branch falling on the wrong bit of cable at the wrong time and some automatic thingy not noticing.