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Russian Ambassador to Turkey Assasinated in Ankara
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Sport1
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“How is that even possible with a state like that? It appears to be as much of a rogue state as a rogue state can be as we understand the term to mean.”

Russia?
lemoncurd
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Dingbat:
“It would take quite some time to relocate the tactical nuclear weapons stored there. Even if Trump caved in to Putin - which in turn would be political suicide for him at home, anyway.”

Not at all. Trump was elected largely on his promises to pull back from protecting other countries and having Americans stationed in foreign bases around that world as it is an expensive way of enacting a home-defence. He's not enamoured with NATO. A week of so of air lifting the nukes in Turkey back to the US would be all that is required (bearing in mind that TNWs are, definitionally, quite small).
Palafrugel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Alrightmate:
“How is that even possible with a state like that?”

Because the ruling elite decided long ago Turkey would be promoted and encouraged no matter what. The thought process at the time from the US was that this would weaken the former Soviet Union. However now that the Soviet Union has collapsed - the belief in Turkey from the West has not wavered. Turkey is one of the most powerful nations on earth politically, no matter what they do.

The first step in removing that powerful status would be Trump pulling out his NATO nukes from Turkey. That wont happen as many in NATO want Turkey at the forefront of international politics.
The Full Sparky
19-12-2016
Inside job. Russias policy on Syria is all about making them seem more important than they actually are, not just an insignificant country with an economy the size of Italy's that just so happens to have a veto on the security council.
zounds
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“I do hope this is not an Arch Duke Ferdinand moment.”

Hopefully the world is a little wiser these days and one religious nut will not a world war make.
I agree with you that it could be a defining point in history, depending on Putin's reaction.
Nodger
19-12-2016
Can't find any definite information regarding the outcome for the shooter.
zounds
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Nodger:
“Can't find any definite information regarding the outcome for the shooter.”

The Daily Mail has an image that was posted on Twitter:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...2170272912.jpg

Looks like quite a few shots were fired at him judging by the wall.
Oliver_Tomlinso
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Nodger:
“Can't find any definite information regarding the outcome for the shooter.”

I think he's dead, someone put pictures of him on the floor with bullet wounds
sandstone
19-12-2016
from an AP photographer.
Nodger
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by zounds:
“The Daily Mail has an image that was posted on Twitter:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...2170272912.jpg

Looks like quite a few shots were fired at him judging by the wall.”

Originally Posted by Oliver_Tomlinso:
“I think he's dead, someone put pictures of him on the floor with bullet wounds”

Thank you. The report I read (BBC) just said 'neutralised' but didn't specify the method.
David_Herfrel
19-12-2016
Shooter was a FORMER police officer.
Cheetah666
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by David_Herfrel:
“Shooter was a FORMER police officer.”

So he wasn't there in any official capacity? Then how the heck did he get a gun past security?
Palafrugel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by David_Herfrel:
“Shooter was a FORMER police officer.”

I read he was a current police officer.
David_Herfrel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Cheetah666:
“So he wasn't there in any official capacity? Then how the heck did he get a gun past security?”

According to RT he was a police officer until 2015 when he lost his job after the coup.

Fired in 2015 for playing a role in coup apparently. Apparently showed a police ID to gain entry/access to room.

Source RT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6YeSANJ-w
David_Herfrel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“I read he was a current police officer.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6YeSANJ-w

From now rewind about 5 minutes and it is explained.

Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş is the name of the alleged gunman.
thenetworkbabe
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“Because the ruling elite decided long ago Turkey would be promoted and encouraged no matter what. The thought process at the time from the US was that this would weaken the former Soviet Union. However now that the Soviet Union has collapsed - the belief in Turkey from the West has not wavered. Turkey is one of the most powerful nations on earth politically, no matter what they do.

The first step in removing that powerful status would be Trump pulling out his NATO nukes from Turkey. That wont happen as many in NATO want Turkey at the forefront of international politics.”

No one much cares about Turkey being significant in anything much. That was a UKIP fantasy.

What they care about are avoiding the negatives - not having Turkey adrift as a loose actor- or trying to revert to Erdogan's earlier policy. of re-establishing the Ottoman empire.

And the worst case is Turkey, without a NATO nuclear umbrella, matching Iran's nuclear programme - with Iran , Russia, Greece, and Israel on its early target lists ,and leadership in the moslem world an objective. That just leads to instability, and potential regional nuclear proliferation - from Morocco to Iran .

Trump of course is too stupid to realise this, or find out why earlier presidents have known NATO is vital to world stability. Someone may have to brief Ivanka.
mal2pool
19-12-2016
wouldnt be suprised if the russian government had a hand in it, it usually does
Palafrugel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by mal2pool:
“wouldnt be suprised if the russian government had a hand in it, it usually does”

Watched the video of him shooting Karlov and then screaming Alluah Akbar and blaming Russia for Aleppo. Didn't immediately strike me as a false flag operation by Russia. We also have to take into account Turkey cannot be harmed by Russia thanks to its Nuclear NATO status - and Russia knows that.
Palafrugel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by thenetworkbabe:
“No one much cares about Turkey being significant in anything much. That was a UKIP fantasy..”

Turkey being an important NATO ally is stated by nearly every Government official when anything Turkey-related is uttered. That is because it is a key NATO nuclear ally. This has nothing to do with Brexit or UKIP. You really need to stop reliving the referendum.
Rich Tea.
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by lemoncurd:
“What is "NATO immunity"? I'd say it's fairly meaningless. If Putin wants to drive his forces into Ankara, all guns blazing, I can't see Trump or May willing to get involved.”

Just suppose you are right for a moment. That effectively then gives Russia one almighty green light to cherry pick off all the other ex Soviet bloc nations under the NATO umbrella too in Eastern Europe - Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia just to name the 4 most obvious ones. It's ultimately about more than just Turkey, and that is why it's not a question of not wanting to get involved but a question of having to do so. That is your immunity and untouchable status explained in a nutshell.
The Full Sparky
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“Watched the video of him shooting Karlov and then screaming Alluah Akbar and blaming Russia for Aleppo. Didn't immediately strike me as a false flag operation by Russia. We also have to take into account Turkey cannot be harmed by Russia thanks to its Nuclear NATO status - and Russia knows that.”

If it was a false flag operation, the gunman was hardly likely to be draped in the Russian flag was he?
Palafrugel
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by The Full Sparky:
“If it was a false flag operation, the gunman was hardly likely to be draped in the Russian flag was he?”

No, I agree with your straw man. He would not be draped in a Russia flag. However, again, having watched the video, one thing that really comes across is his belief in Allah and the rebels in Syria. There are certain things even the best actor can't fake.

Putin has already spoken about the incident and indicated it was an act aimed at weakening the Syrian Peace process.
Dotheboyshall
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“Putin has already spoken about the incident and indicated it was an act aimed at weakening the Syrian Peace process.”

There's a Syrian Peace process?
Jayceef1
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by David_Herfrel:
“According to RT he was a police officer until 2015 when he lost his job after the coup.

Fired in 2015 for playing a role in coup apparently. Apparently showed a police ID to gain entry/access to room.

Source RT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6YeSANJ-w”

According to BBC he was a serving officer from their riot squad but off duty at time of incident.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38369962

Also reported thaat his mother, sister and room mate have been held

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-protect.html
Dotheboyshall
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by David_Herfrel:
“Fired in 2015 for playing a role in coup apparently.”

If he was involved in the coup then he'd be in jail, so he's probably just one of tens of thousands purged by Erdogan's paranoia. Makes him an ideal candidate for recruitment
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