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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.


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Old 19-12-2016, 23:03
planets
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I wasn't talking generally. I was specifically referring to Tony's earlier post, responding to andersonsonson:
And my response addresses that fact.
For over a decade we have had a constant flow of horrific news reports of either individual small scale incidents or mass slaughter of Islamic terror groups attacking muslims. Currently the horror of Aleppo has been in the news for some time. In fact some posters are keen to point out the majority of victims of Islamic terror attacks are other muslims. That's why I responded to your "bafflement" as to why someone might think "some muslims want other muslims to suffer" as you stated here:
Whether you are a 'lone thinker' is irrelevant. I'm still baffled as to why someone might think that what (some) Muslims want is for other Muslims to suffer.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:04
hufflestuff
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Hate breeding hate.
Or some folk have buried their entire upper bodies in the sand.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:05
Staunchy
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I would have thought a full and thorough investigation will be going on before they release any news. I would have thought that's the only correct and sensible way to go about it.

Why do people need to know everything immediately? These things take time and need to be handled correctly.
I agree, now if we could just invent a time machine and go back to before a certain MP was murdered, you could post it on "that" thread too. Or, is your stance of "let's wait and see" selective?
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:06
stargazer61
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The BBC really are starting to grate, they are literally becoming a meme - lorry kills 9 at Christmas market. An articulated lorry has ploughed into a busy Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing nine people and injuring many more, police say.

Not even entertaining the notion it's a terrorist attack, blaming the lorry.
From the BBC website:

Berlin State Interior Minister Andreas Geisel said it was still unclear if it had been an attack or an accident.

So, do you expect the BBC to override the Berlin Minister? NO news site can state whether or not it was a terrorist attack - they can only speculate!
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:07
jra
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Hope they catch the creep who drove - accident or otherwise.
Misuse of the word creep there I think.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:07
sutie
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Or some folk have buried their entire upper bodies in the sand.



Far too many sadly, which is why we can expect more of the same mindless horror.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:08
WhatJoeThinks
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And my response addresses that fact.
For over a decade we have had a constant flow of horrific news reports of either individual small scale incidents or mass slaughter of Islamic terror groups attacking muslims. Currently the horror of Aleppo has been in the news for some time. In fact some posters are keen to point out the majority of victims of Islamic terror attacks are other muslims. That's why I responded to your "bafflement" as to why "some muslims want other muslims to suffer" as you stated here:
Like I said, I wasn't talking generally. Obviously there are Muslims attacking Muslims somewhere in the world. What Tony suggested is that Islamic terrorists are apt to gaud westerners into attacking fellow Muslims so that they can then point the finger at westerners, saying to other Muslims, "See, this is what the West does to our brothers and sisters, come get measured for your suicide vest, or take HGV driving lessons."

Basically it's a load of old cobblers, and has nothing to do with conflict between Muslims in Aleppo and elsewhere.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:09
Penny Crayon
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I agree, now if we could just invent a time machine and go back to before a certain MP was murdered, you could post it on "that" thread too. Or, is your stance of "let's wait and see" selective?
Not at all. I'm simply saying that it's bloody ridiculous that people are expecting all the why's, wherefores and gory details within a matter of hours.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:14
planets
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Like I said, I wasn't talking generally. Obviously there are Muslims attacking Muslims somewhere in the world. What Tony suggested is that Islamic terrorists are apt to gaud westerners into attacking fellow Muslims, so that they can then point the finger at westerners, saying to other Muslims, "See, this is what the West does to our brothers and sisters, come get measured for your suicide vest, or take HGV driving lessons."

Basically it's a load of old cobblers.
But ISIS have actually stated they want to stir up unrest and conflict between The West and the Muslims living peaceably in The West, it's one of their goals; they want the propaganda of it for the use of radicalizing, it's a recruiting tool for their faction of fanaticism. As a concept it's not "old cobblers" at all. Divide and conquer.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:16
francie
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But ISIS have actually stated they want to stir up unrest and conflict between The West and the Muslims living peaceably in The West, it's one of their goals; they want the propaganda of it for the use of radicalizing, it's a recruiting tool for their faction of fanaticism. As a concept it's not "old cobblers" at all. Divide and conquer.
Exactly.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:17
jra
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What? Man on Sky banging on that if the Authorities knew that it was likely that there was to be an attack on Christmas Markets, then all Christmas Markets should be shut! By that logic, if a group of terrorists suggest that there will be on attack on, say, a football match or on a railway station, then all stadiums or stations are closed until the supposed threat is over.
No. If there is a suspected attack on a public place, then all public places all around the world should be shut down. It's the only way to be sure. : rolleyes :
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:17
Grafenwalder
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Russian Ambassador to Turkey shot dead by an off duty Policeman for 'Aleppo', I hate clicking on the news now, I literally expect to see some atrocity.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showt...0#post84924930
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:19
Staunchy
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Not at all. I'm simply saying that it's bloody ridiculous that people are expecting all the why's, wherefores and gory details within a matter of hours.
Will you be speculating, insinuating and fear-mongering based on the actions of an individual this time around?
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:19
stargazer61
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I would have thought a full and thorough investigation will be going on before they release any news. I would have thought that's the only correct and sensible way to go about it.

Why do people need to know everything immediately? These things take time and need to be handled correctly.
Exactly. Speculation leads to unfounded rumours (especially when spread by Twitter) which can be equally dangerous. Until the identity of the driver and his motive (if any) is established, every thing is just speculation even if it does appear to be obvious. The advent of social media has led to an impatience (and 'chinese whispers' scenario) without any thought as to whether the information has been verified.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:20
francie
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It seems, unless I'm misunderstanding this, that the US seems to think this is terrorist related...

" ...Washington stands ready "to provide assistance" to Germany in investigating the "this horrific incident". " http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-38370364

Had intelligence on this, or similar, happening perhaps?
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:21
stargazer61
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No. If there is a suspected attack on a public place, then all public places all around the world should be shut down. It's the only way to be sure. : rolleyes :
fair nuff
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:21
Union Jock
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My question is, given that you said you could argue that all religious belief is a form of mental illness, how do you reconcile that with religious beliefs such as "Love thy neighbour"? There's nothing mental about that, is there?

As for me not showing any compassion, I assure you that I feel for those who have been affected. Nine people are most certainly dead and 50-odd more are injured. Regardless of whether this was deliberate it's pretty shocking. I thought that went without saying. Apparently not.

I haven't once denied that this was a terrorist attack, by the way. Not once. You have obviously misunderstood
.
I didn't say you'd denied it, I said you were trying to, you don't even seem to accept it could be one.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:25
WhatJoeThinks
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I didn't say you'd denied it, I said you were trying to, you don't even seem to accept it could be one.
I'm not trying to deny anything. There isn't even anything to deny as yet. And of course it could be deliberate, and if it was deliberate then it could be terrorism. I'll wait and see.

So is it mental to love thy neighbour, or are we going to gloss over that bit?
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:26
Union Jock
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I find it a bit low people trying to point score and blame merkel
It could have been a full German national who carried out the attack
Yes it could but why would a full German national hijack a polish reg truck to do it?


As for Merkel, she is the German leader so why not?
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:26
Penny Crayon
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Will you be speculating, insinuating and fear-mongering based on the actions of an individual this time around?
Well as I remember I (and others) speculated on the numerous eye witness interviews and rolling news re the Jo Cox murder. I haven't seem the same amount of coverage to speculate on. There doesn't seem to be so much news being released so - no - I won't speculate until there is something to speculate on.

Does that answer your question?

There are many dead and injured at this incident - until we know more it seems a bit disrespectful.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:29
mazzy50
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The BBC really are starting to grate, they are literally becoming a meme - lorry kills 9 at Christmas market. An articulated lorry has ploughed into a busy Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing nine people and injuring many more, police say.

Not even entertaining the notion it's a terrorist attack, blaming the lorry.
BIB - not true. Reading to the end of an article before slagging it off is usually a sensible idea.

Of course they aren't blaming the lorry - how ridiculous. The attack was made using a lorry - hence the term lorry attack in the same way that an attack using firearms is usually called a gun attack - doesn't mean that the gun was not being used by a human.

This is from the same article -:

Berlin State Interior Minister Andreas Geisel said it was still unclear if it had been an attack or an accident.
According to the DPA news agency, police believe the lorry drove 50-80 metres (54-87 yards) through the market area during the incident, which occurred at 20:14 local time (19:14 GMT).
"The sequence of events points to either an accident or an attack," Berlin State Interior Minister Andreas Geisel said.
However far-fetched the idea of an accident is, it is a direct quote from the German authorities.

Are you going to suggest that the State Interior Minister is an islam apologist?

The article mentions that the passenger who is dead is a Polish national whilst the nationality of the man who has been arrested has not been revealed yet. So, pointing to the possibility that the Polish lorry driver may have been killed.

The same article also includes the following:

A British eyewitness, Mike Fox, told The Associated Press at the scene that the large lorry had missed him by only about 3m as it drove into the market, tearing through tables and wooden stands.
"It was definitely deliberate," said the tourist, visiting from Birmingham.
Finally they draw parallels with the attack in NICE:

A series of small-scale attacks by Islamist militants alarmed Germany earlier this year.
Monday's incident evoked memories of the lorry attack on Bastille Day crowds in the French city of Nice on 14 July, when 86 people were killed. That attack was claimed by so-called Islamic State.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:30
WhatJoeThinks
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But ISIS have actually stated they want to stir up unrest and conflict between The West and the Muslims living peaceably in The West, it's one of their goals; they want the propaganda of it for the use of radicalizing, it's a recruiting tool for their faction of fanaticism. As a concept it's not "old cobblers" at all. Divide and conquer.
There seem to be lots of things that ISIS has stated. If I broke wind loudly enough they'd probably claim it was them. The fact is that most terrorists are 'lone wolves' without any real understanding of what they're doing or why. Misguided fools the lot of them, in my opinion. And the only proper organized attacks, like September 11th, were a way of fighting back against the west. It's guerrilla warfare.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:31
WhatJoeThinks
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Yes it could but why would a full German national hijack a polish reg truck to do it?


As for Merkel, she is the German leader so why not?
Merkel is the Chancellor, not the leader.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:35
Union Jock
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Merkel is the Chancellor, not the leader.
Ok.

As for Merkel, she is the German Chancellor so why not.
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Old 19-12-2016, 23:38
blueblade
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It'll be interesting to see what the German police say about the identity of the driver (assuming whoever they've got, definitely is the driver)

Also, I wonder how the passenger died.
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