DS Forums

 
 

A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20-12-2016, 10:45
David_Flett1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,457
Just reading the truck had a Polish number plate. I see Schengen is working as well as ever.
A truck could be used by anyone from anywhere as was demonstrated in the Nice attack. Someone could easily hijack a truck at a service station or rest place that has already crossed a border.
David_Flett1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 20-12-2016, 10:45
Sport1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,059
You haven't even acknowledged that all of the terrorist attacks from 9/11 onwards amount to far more than a handful !
So how many people is it?
Sport1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:46
bluewomble88
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,114
So you pick seven incidents in Europe over 23 years.

Wikipedia has a section which lists all the apparent terrorist attacks across the entire world each month. Here is the list of the 75 incidents so far - yes 75 in 20 days - and there are still 11 days to go. Do you notice anything about 95 per cent of the incidents have in common - and it's pretty much the same every month.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._December_2016
Exactly this.

To put it simply, these liberals are saying "Yes the Muslim faith is attached to some terrorism but it's only a handful of people and your faith is also responsible for innocents being killed. Many years ago. On a massively smaller scale."

Seriously? If I go and gun down a woman and child in the name of Christianity whilst shouting out "Praise the Lord", that doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of all terrorist attacks is attached to Muslims and Islam. These people will try telling you that Jo Cox's murderer somehow proves that it's not all Muslims/refugees/asylum seekers. WE KNOW IT ISN'T. But just look at the numbers.
bluewomble88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:47
bluewomble88
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,114
So how many people is it?
Why don't you go and do some of your own research, then compare that number to other nutjobs that have murdered in the name of a religion? Come back with your results.
bluewomble88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:49
jesaya
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Loathed by the Daily Mail...
Posts: 34,199
Ok so let's carry on trying to thwart attacks instead of taking difficult, uncomfortable decisions to make sure we don't need armed police at every social gathering.
What difficult, uncomfortable decisions do you think need to be made though? There are nearly fifty million Muslims living in Europe, and of course millions more visit each year. If you want to make us safe, how are you going to stop one of these people from hijacking a lorry and driving it into a market?
jesaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:51
Sport1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,059
Why don't you go and do some of your own research, then compare that number to other nutjobs that have murdered in the name of a religion? Come back with your results.
I'm comparing the number of people carrying out terrorists acts compared to the number of Muslims (in this case) in Europe. It's a handful. Still a huge problem but a handful.

Same with all terrorism, no matter what the aim.
Sport1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:55
bluewomble88
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,114
What difficult, uncomfortable decisions do you think need to be made though? There are nearly fifty million Muslims living in Europe, and of course millions more visit each year. If you want to make us safe, how are you going to stop one of these people from hijacking a lorry and driving it into a market?
A more important question is how many Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish individuals would do something like that in the first place? Are you starting to see my point?
bluewomble88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 10:59
Gordon g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 449
This is part of European life now unfortunately. Every time it happens we will be told to just ignore it or else the terrorists win, or it will give ammunition to the far right. People will change their Facebook status to the flag of the affected Country for a week or 2 and it will all be forgotten until the next massacre.
Gordon g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:03
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
I'm comparing the number of people carrying out terrorists acts compared to the number of Muslims (in this case) in Europe. It's a handful. Still a huge problem but a handful.

Same with all terrorism, no matter what the aim.
Of course. But when people of your religion - which accounts for less than a quarter of the world population - account for over 90 per cent of terrorist attacks in the world month after month usually using their faith to justify it might suggest there is a serious problem with a small minority.

It only took 20 young men - mostly Saudis (but we never invaded Saudi Arabia!) to commit 9-11. As a result In addition to the 3000 who died on the day hundreds of thousands of people - possibly millions - have died subsequently in the Middle East and Afghanistan because of what flowed from the actions of just 20 men. We get ISIS, Boko Haram and Al Qaeda and more.

If you don't recognise you have a problem you won't ever solve it.
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:04
duckylucky
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 10,247
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berli...aeter-25343398

A brave bystander saw the man fleeing from the truck . Followed him with is mobile phone and kept the police informed as to where he was .Being guided by this person the man was arrested by the Siegessäule not too far away
Brave brave person .
duckylucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:06
jesaya
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Loathed by the Daily Mail...
Posts: 34,199
A more important question is how many Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Jewish individuals would do something like that in the first place? Are you starting to see my point?
No, that isn't a more important question, because we already know that the great majority of threats come from radical Muslims. I am addressing your argument that something 'radical' needs to be done. What is this radical solution that you think would work?
jesaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:06
Sport1
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,059
Of course. But when people of your religion - which accounts for less than a quarter of the world population - account for over 90 per cent of terrorist attacks in the world month after month usually using their faith to justify it might suggest there is a serious problem with a small minority.

It only took 20 young men - mostly Saudis (but we never invaded Saudi Arabia!) to commit 9-11. As a result In addition to the 3000 who died on the day hundreds of thousands of people - possibly millions - have died subsequently in the Middle East and Afghanistan because of what flowed from the actions of just 20 men. We get ISIS, Boko Haram and Al Qaeda and more.

If you don't recognise you have a problem you won't ever solve it.
There is a huge problem within Islam, there is no denying that. But by sanctioning millions, the few will win.
Sport1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:09
Gordon g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 449
Europe
2011 Norway Oslo bombings and Utøya shooting (76 killed more than 90 injured)
2011 Italy Florence shooting (2 killed, 3 injured)
2000-2006 Germany Bosphorus serial murders
2004 Germany Cologne bombing (22 injured)
1999 UK London bombings (3 killed more than 100 injured)
1988 Italy Bologna bombings (85 killed 180 injured)
1988 France bombings of Sonacotra hostels in Cagnes-sur-Mer and Cannes (1 killed 16 injured)

USA
2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed)
2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed)
2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed)
2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed)
2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed), 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed)
2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed)
2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed)
2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed)
2010 Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed)
2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed)
2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed)
2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed)
2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed)
2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed)
2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed)
2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed)
If you want to play extremist top trumps. There have been 2400 Islamic terror attacks spread over 59 Countries this year alone.
Gordon g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:18
crystallad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,512
The 1930's and '40's.
Nearly 100 years ago, you have proved the point it is not a modern day concern un like the Muslim terrorists we have today
crystallad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:19
blueblade
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Southern East Anglia
Posts: 75,216
This is part of European life now unfortunately. Every time it happens we will be told to just ignore it or else the terrorists win, or it will give ammunition to the far right. People will change their Facebook status to the flag of the affected Country for a week or 2 and it will all be forgotten until the next massacre.
We can't ignore it. Problem is, what can we do about it?

If somebody is determined to take lives, they can do so - and no amount of anti terrorist measures in the world will prevent it.

That said, I was pleased to hear about the preventative bollards being installed in other pedestrianised areas, such as Birmingham. Don't know what the mechanics of those bollards are, but I do know they'd have to be bloody good to stop a heavy lorry being driven at speed, from getting through. Many would just be flattened. I imagine smallish thick re-inforced ones would be the most effective.

We can't install tank traps without looking really desperate.
blueblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:27
Rekekah_Carter
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
You're new here. You should dial down the insults.
You need to have a word with yourself! Who do you think you are?

As for this latest atrocity, my heart goes out to all those poor, innocent people affected by it.

I fully expect another one soon unfortunately.
Rekekah_Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:28
Rekekah_Carter
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
I suggest you try listening or reading more then. I don't expect you to however, as this is your "go to stance" when it comes to terrorism debates. I'm really not interested in your usual platitudes.
Very well said, Minnie.
Rekekah_Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:30
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,289
Nearly 100 years ago, you have proved the point it is not a modern day concern un like the Muslim terrorists we have today
And of course most German, Russians and Japanese are nice, friendly and peaceful people and were then. Didn't stop 100 million deaths when the extremists took over often with the implicit consent of a large minority.
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:31
Rekekah_Carter
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
These calls remind my of the way Middle Eastern countries trot out their compliant / frightened Jewish, Coptic etc leaders to show how tolerant they are and obedient to the majority. There's something very Ottoman, Balkanish about that thinking and it will lead the same way if pursued. Separate communities with differing leadership structures, and unresolved problems rather than a multi-ethnic society.

Muslims are not responsible for the actions of other muslims unless they encourage it, or support it. And religious community leaders don't represent them any more than the Archbishop of Westminister represents British Catholics or the Archbishop of Canterbury for those who go to church there.
They do support it, by turning a blind eye.
Rekekah_Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:32
GusGus
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 626
These calls remind my of the way Middle Eastern countries trot out their compliant / frightened Jewish, Coptic etc leaders to show how tolerant they are and obedient to the majority. There's something very Ottoman, Balkanish about that thinking and it will lead the same way if pursued. Separate communities with differing leadership structures, and unresolved problems rather than a multi-ethnic society.

Muslims are not responsible for the actions of other muslims unless they encourage it, or support it. And religious community leaders don't represent them any more than the Archbishop of Westminister represents British Catholics or the Archbishop of Canterbury for those who go to church there.

Doesn't stop the Archbishop or Pope pontificating though, does it. How do you know that their words are ignored
No reason for the Imams or Muslims in general to condemn, and condemn
GusGus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:33
Rekekah_Carter
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berli...aeter-25343398

A brave bystander saw the man fleeing from the truck . Followed him with is mobile phone and kept the police informed as to where he was .Being guided by this person the man was arrested by the Siegessäule not too far away
Brave brave person .
Absolutely. What a hero.
Rekekah_Carter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:34
GusGus
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 626
Strange, I don't remember you condeming a recent Eta shooting.

You were stangely all too quiet...
I have no idea what you are talking about
I can say though that I condemn any terrorist activity
GusGus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:35
crystallad
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,512
Europe
2011 Norway Oslo bombings and Utøya shooting (76 killed more than 90 injured)
2011 Italy Florence shooting (2 killed, 3 injured)
2000-2006 Germany Bosphorus serial murders
2004 Germany Cologne bombing (22 injured)
1999 UK London bombings (3 killed more than 100 injured)
1988 Italy Bologna bombings (85 killed 180 injured)
1988 France bombings of Sonacotra hostels in Cagnes-sur-Mer and Cannes (1 killed 16 injured)

USA
2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting (3 killed)
2015 Charleston church shooting (9 killed)
2014 ambush attack on Las Vegas police officers (5 killed)
2014 Overland Park Jewish Community Center shooting in Kansas (3 killed)
2014 Pennsylvania State Police barracks attack in Blooming Grove, Pennsylvania (1 killed), 2012 tri-state killing spree by white supremacists, David Pedersen and Holly Grigsby (4 killed)
2012 ambush of St. John the Baptist Parish, Louisiana police (2 killed)
2012 Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting (6 killed)
2011 FEAR group attacks (3 killed)
2010 Carlisle, Pennsylvania (1 killed)
2010 suicide attack by airplane in Austin, Texas (1 killed)
2009 shooting of Pittsburgh police officers (3 killed)
2009 United States Holocaust Memorial Museum shooting (1 killed)
2009 assassination of George Tiller (1 killed)
2009 murders of Raul and Brisenia Flores in Pima County, Arizona (2 killed)
2009 murders in Brockton, Massachusetts (2 killed)
2008 Knoxville Unitarian Universalist church shooting (2 killed)
That's 46 people over a long time, Muslims kill more in one attack!
crystallad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:35
Susie_Smith
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 676
http://www.berliner-zeitung.de/berli...aeter-25343398

A brave bystander saw the man fleeing from the truck . Followed him with is mobile phone and kept the police informed as to where he was .Being guided by this person the man was arrested by the Siegessäule not too far away
Brave brave person .
Blimey. The police should hire him. What clear thinking and bravery in what must have been shocking surroundings.
Susie_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-12-2016, 11:36
Gordon g
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 449
We can't ignore it. Problem is, what can we do about it?

If somebody is determined to take lives, they can do so - and no amount of anti terrorist measures in the world will prevent it.

That said, I was pleased to hear about the preventative bollards being installed in other pedestrianised areas, such as Birmimgham. Don't know what the mechanics of those bollards are, but I do know they'd have to be bloody good to stop a heavy lorry being driven at speed, from getting through. Many would just be flattened. I imagine smallish thick re-inforced ones would be the most effective.

We can't install tank traps without looking really desperate.
Maybe ask the open borders/all refugees welcome supporters. I'm sure they have a plan.

In hindsight it would have been better to only accept refugees coming from offical channels, but that idea was branded heartless and far right 12 Months ago.
Gordon g is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:39.