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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.
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Mark39London
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Well it was insanity to just accept, without meaningful check, near enough a million people. It was manifestly obvious to anyone with half a brain that there'd be terrorist cells amongst them.

The ongoing and very very real problem the Germans have got, is determining who the minority among those mostly genuine refugees, is a terrorist, sleeper, or likely to be radicalised in the future. Pretty much impossible on a practical level.”

Agree with all of this, but especially the BiB.

This single action has significantly increased the threats to many European countries, not just Germany. Terrorists are never going to declare their intentions and to allow so many people access at once was going to prevent any form of detention until rigorous checks are completed.

What a mess
SnowStorm86
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mark_Jones9:
“I take it you are using thereligionofpeace.com as your source of information.
It counts pretty much any killing by any Muslim including in warzones and people killed in family disputes, and also has some erroneous entries.

We are by the way not playing terrorism top trumps. I am merely disagreeing with the premise that far right terrorism is not a problem.

That Jihadist terrorism is the form of terrorism currently causing mass casualties in the EU is not disputed.

For example.
The latest 2016 Eurpol report on terrorism in the EU which covers terrorist attacks made in 2015.
Jihadist terrorism caused 150 fatalities in the EU (the Paris attacks account for 148)
All other terrorism combined caused 3 fatalities in the EU.

But that other forms of terrorism also exist and if not for security services and police would succeed in killing more people than they currently do is also reality.

For example.
The latest 2016 Eurpol report on terrorism in the EU which covers terrorist attacks made in 2015.
Terrorist attacks in the EU including successful, failed and foiled attacks
65 Ethno-nationalist and separatist terrorist attacks
17 Jihadist terrorist attacks (15 of the attacks relate to the Paris attacks)
13 Left-wing and anarchist attacks
9 Right-wing terrorist attacks”

You are loving your terrorism top trumps.
stvn758
20-12-2016
Why was he hiding?

Anyhow he's a Muslim and said he didn't do it, that's good enough for the German authorities. Wait and see what the DNA says, I guess.
flashfiction
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by stvn758:
“Why was he hiding?

Anyhow he's a Muslim and said he didn't do it, that's good enough for the German authorities. Wait and see what the DNA says, I guess.”

was he hiding? I must have missed that - I thought he was just followed/tracked by a bystander but maybe I've read different articles.
Palafrugel
20-12-2016
Something fishy going on here.

The suspect is followed by a witness from the scene until he is arrested.
The German Police say it is not him because he has no blood on his clothes (?) and denies he is involved.

Something doesn't seem right.
walford-e20
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“So this story seems a little strange now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ding-spot.html”

Unless the 'witness' was working with the driver to deliberately lead police on a false trail, leaving the real suspect free to unleash more terror.
GusGus
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by annette kurten:
“no they aren`t, it`s just the media don`t pick it up.

people also forget we have serving forces personnel who are muslim.”


You must be well placed to have heard them, none of the rest of us have
The Pakistani community and the Country have been particularly quiet but then they harboured Osama Bun Laden. They have hated us since the days of Jinnah and Partition
David_Flett1
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“Islam is by its nature an expansionist religion that seeks converts. That makes it subtly different from say Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism etc.

It was spread throughout much of the world originally by the sword - including an empire that stretched into much of Europe. And a minority are seeking to continue that today. People assumed it was the Nazis that were the first people to make Jews walk around in public wearing a yellow - they actually copied that idea from practices in the Middle East a century ago. The English word slave is derived from Slav a reflecting the slavery of many Eastern Europeans by the Ottoman Empire.

There are only 11 nations in the world where being gay makes you liable to the death penalty - although in Nigeria this doesn't apply in the Christian regions - all subject to Sharia law.

Yes the vast vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and kind people. But when the extremists take over it can have very dangerous consequences.

Bad things have also been done in the name of Christianity over the centuries but we have generally moved on.”

Thank you for making a constructive contribution to this thread where unfortunately as usual it was in danger of ending in the same way as the Paris and Nice threads did with conjecture and speculation and in some instances rather unsavoury comments.

I was unaware of who and when badges of distinction were introduced although I do know that it was used in England in the early 13th century. Even then I only discovered this because I was studying the period of the late 13th and early 14th centuries of Edward the 1st reign where it was Edward who designated the colour and size.

Looking into this further I discovered that different colours were first introduced by Omar 11 in 717 to distinguish religious faiths not belonging to the majority. It was not universally observed but radically imposed over a century later and remained for centuries. Jews were compelled to wear yellow belts and hats.
annette kurten
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“You must be well placed to have heard them, none of the rest of us have
The Pakistani community and the Country have been particularly quiet but then they harboured Osama Bun Laden. They have hated us since the days of Jinnah and Partition”

as i said, that`s because the media ignore it.

i`m in or following a few groups on there and they are busy.

the armed forces muslim association is also on a recruitment drive.
stvn758
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by flashfiction:
“was he hiding? I must have missed that - I thought he was just followed/tracked by a bystander but maybe I've read different articles.”

One of the reports from the eyewitness who never took his eyes off the guy from the moment he left the cab to when a patrol car arrested him hiding.

Cringe!

I'm not the only one whose started to notice the politically correct reporting of these frequent atrocities.
anne_666
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by GusGus:
“Doesn't stop the Archbishop or Pope pontificating though, does it. How do you know that their words are ignored
No reason for the Imams or Muslims in general to condemn, and condemn”

Why is it that every time there's a terrorist attack people say this?
Muslims do condemn terrorism and every attack.
You obviously not bothering to read their repeated condemnation doesn't change anything.

In general
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...demn+terrorism

UK
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourc...demn+terrorism


OP, as it now looks like they've arrested the wrong man there's a, probably armed, barbaric ******* free to do whatever he chooses next.
wordfromthewise
20-12-2016
I think the media have either conciously or sub-conciously homogenised muslims in the minds of some people who are now unable or unwilling to seperate terrorism and the association with the word muslim........its unfortunate and I'm afraid falls into the category of being racist.

Law abiding muslims have no more to do with terrorism than you,me or anybody else and the requirement by some for them to 'speak out' against acts of terrorism is ridiculous and offensive.....muslims have got nothing to prove in the current situation and to suggest that they have is racist.
Deep Purple
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“Something fishy going on here.

The suspect is followed by a witness from the scene until he is arrested.
The German Police say it is not him because he has no blood on his clothes (?) and denies he is involved.

Something doesn't seem right.”

This is the problem with the police trying to tell the media what is going on at the time, and why we dont tend to do that.

Just because someone denies something doesn't prove anything, and that information should not be released.

The police shouldn't be saying whether they have the right person or not. They should investigate, and let a court decide, and the results of their enquiries should remain out of the public domain until court.
Elyan
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by wordfromthewise:
“I think the media have either conciously or sub-conciously homogenised muslims in the minds of some people who are now unable or unwilling to seperate terrorism and the association with the word muslim........its unfortunate and I'm afraid falls into the category of being racist.

Law abiding muslims have no more to do with terrorism than you,me or anybody else and the requirement by some for them to 'speak out' against acts of terrorism is ridiculous and offensive.....muslims have got nothing to prove in the current situation and to suggest that they have is racist.”

Most of them, when asked to comment on atrocities like this, start talking about western foreign policy. It's not a wholehearted condemnation. It's a sort of 'yeah but'.
duckylucky
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by wordfromthewise:
“I think the media have either conciously or sub-conciously homogenised muslims in the minds of some people who are now unable or unwilling to seperate terrorism and the association with the word muslim........its unfortunate and I'm afraid falls into the category of being racist.

Law abiding muslims have no more to do with terrorism than you,me or anybody else and the requirement by some for them to 'speak out' against acts of terrorism is ridiculous and offensive.....muslims have got nothing to prove in the current situation and to suggest that they have is racist.”

Well put it this way , if atrocities and killings were happening in the name of Catholicism I would feel the need to scream out my horror and shout out
" not in my name "
Sport1
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“Something fishy going on here.

The suspect is followed by a witness from the scene until he is arrested.
The German Police say it is not him because he has no blood on his clothes (?) and denies he is involved.

Something doesn't seem right.”

They are still investigating, that's all.
annette kurten
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by duckylucky:
“Well put it this way , if atrocities and killings were happening in the name of Catholicism I would feel the need to scream out my horror and shout out
" not in my name "”

they do and they are.

regarding catholicism, are you old enough to remember the ira in the 70`s?

it was the same then for irish people, in essence at least, as it is now with muslim people.
Aetius_Maralas
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“Hang on......doesn't that mean that the attacker is not a refugee from Pakistan?”

That just goes to show how dangerous these Muslims can be.

Going around maliciously not fullfilling the hysterical DS right wing stereotype.

Gits.
duckylucky
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by annette kurten:
“they do and they are.

regarding catholicism, are you old enough to remember the ira in the 70`s?

it was the same then for irish people, in essence at least, as it is now with muslim people.”

I certainly do . And I remember well my dad shouting out " not in my name , not in my name "
And I will still say it loudly " the IRA did not act in my name , they were not acting on my behalf "
Palafrugel
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by wordfromthewise:
“I think the media have either conciously or sub-conciously homogenised muslims in the minds of some people who are now unable or unwilling to seperate terrorism and the association with the word muslim........its unfortunate and I'm afraid falls into the category of being racist.

Law abiding muslims have no more to do with terrorism than you,me or anybody else and the requirement by some for them to 'speak out' against acts of terrorism is ridiculous and offensive.....muslims have got nothing to prove in the current situation and to suggest that they have is racist.”

I think you are missing a key component of Islamic Terrorism. Support structures. Without those, there will be little to no Islamic Terrorism. Support structures vary from anti-western mosques, encouraged religious isolationism - to anti-western muslim families and communities - to actual terrorist cells within communities and mosques. This general laissez-faire attitude in many muslim communities shields and enables the growth of extremists. The support networks to Islamic terrorism includes millions of muslims and indeed non-muslims (people who seek to deflect away from the issues to protect a moral compass that may already be broken). Of course we must stress that millions upon millions of muslims behave responsibility - but we must also acknowledge - the problem is far more serious than just a 'few' rotten apples.
TrollHunter
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by occy:
“London has the New Years parade and probably other cities do the same in a few weeks. Complete lock down?”

The areas in London where crowds will be congregating for the NYE celebrations are already heavily locked down. Some bridges across the Thames are closed (Lambeth up to Waterloo), initially for vehicles, then later in the evening for pedestrians. The ticket holders are hemmed into fenced off enclosures with massive security checks taking place, so the prospect of a Nice/Berlin style vehicle-based attack is non-existent.

Smuggling a bomb in would be very difficult but not impossible though.
annette kurten
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by duckylucky:
“I certainly do . And I remember well my dad shouting out " not in my name , not in my name "
And I will still say it loudly " the IRA did not act in my name , they were not acting on my behalf "”

and huge numbers of muslims are doing the same, you`re just not seeing it.

[because the media only give it occasional lip service].
Palafrugel
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Sport1:
“They are still investigating, that's all.”

I like the idea of the investigation, what I dislike is the political nature of the German police. Personally I would prefer if they keep most the investigation classified at this stage. Giving out statements hourly that the suspect denies involvement and that they may have the wrong man seems a little unprofessional.
Sport1
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Palafrugel:
“I like the idea of the investigation, what I dislike is the political nature of the German police. Personally I would prefer if they keep most the investigation classified at this stage. Giving out statements hourly that the suspect denies involvement and that they may have the wrong man seems a little unprofessional.”

How is keeping people informed 'political'?
Pink_Smurf
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by wordfromthewise:
“I think the media have either conciously or sub-conciously homogenised muslims in the minds of some people who are now unable or unwilling to seperate terrorism and the association with the word muslim........its unfortunate and I'm afraid falls into the category of being racist.

Law abiding muslims have no more to do with terrorism than you,me or anybody else and the requirement by some for them to 'speak out' against acts of terrorism is ridiculous and offensive.....muslims have got nothing to prove in the current situation and to suggest that they have is racist.”

Muslims are not a race. There are Asian, middle eastern, black and white and mixed race Muslims. It's not racist to criticise an ideology. Is it racist to criticise Scientology? What's the difference? Anyway muslims should speak up against the terrorists. As someone else said a lot of muslims blame us when it comes to terror attacks. They blame us for voting, our government's foreign policy etc.
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