No, it's a tough one.

On the other hand I did think it a hopeful sign to see Muslims in Manchester, I think (somewhere in the North anyway) dishing out presents to homeless people on the streets.

You live there? I live near and shop there the people shown in this video are lovely like me like you until riled up . If I was going to make a video I would certainly do something to make my point proved. That is why unless I am there I wont believe it happened as it did.

Lot of hateful people everywhere.

https://youtu.be/fA6XcyXsxXU

Indeed, a whole bunch there in the video.

Have you watched it! What would excuse their behaviour, what they were shouting? Their reaction to her? Their arrogance is astounding.

Theresa May - " Mrs May told the Standard: "Of course our thoughts are with those who have been affected by the terrible attack that took place in Berlin, but Londoners should go about their business as usual. They should enjoy this Christmas period."

Erm... and a Merry Christmas to you too from the NW

Aww that's sweet, I hate how much hate they get there only human and most of them is good. I blame the government, however here we really have been protected so far, although a lot of mistakes have been made. Were really lucky.

Although a slightly weird thing happened to me about 45 mins ago, I had to do the rest of my Christmas shopping, then on my way back home I was waiting to cross the road. It was a bit where you have a side road, which I had to cross across. And then there was this red 4x4 with a trailer on the back. And last minute it decided to go down this road and it looked like it was going to park there because it went on the pavement. Then the next moment it went quite quickly to where I was waiting to cross. Wow it seems much wierder now I'm typing it out lol. Then I had to quickly dodge it and cross the road as well because of the way it was coming at me. And then it stayed there a bit then when I was further down the road went back the way it came. I mean the person might of realised they were going the wrong way, but still they should of gone slower or let me know they were going to come straight at me. I just found it odd, wierdly I weren't scared even though I was almost run over. If they wanted to kill me they should of went a bit faster haha, but then again they didn't have much room to exelerate(or however its spelt) I just kept an eye out after that. I just found it odd, its only now I'm typing this now I'm like sh*t. There's a chance it weren't on purpose I like to believe it weren't anyway, but a bit odd. Oh well.

The issue of the family's prior knowledge, as people are posting about it upthread.

One brother said: "When he left Tunisia he was a normal person. He drank alcohol and didn't even pray. He had no religious beliefs."My dad, my brother and I all used to pray and he didn't, maybe he got into this when he was in prison where he met Algerians, Egyptians and Syrians.
"The last time I spoke to him was 10 days ago, we had a brief conversation. He never used to answer with much but he did mention that he would be coming home soon.
"We expected more from him, we wanted him to develop himself and depend on himself and then help our family.
"He went into prison with a mentality and when he came out he had a total different mentality." "If he's guilty, he deserves every condemnation. We reject terrorism and terrorists - we have no dealings with terrorists.
"I ask him to turn himself in to the police. If it is proved that he is involved, we disassociate ourselves from it." Walid added he wanted to blame him "for what he has done".

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-att...ation-10704790

OTOH Dad seems to be acknowledging his previous crimes plus that he was becoming extreme:

2nd brother said:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/245541...tted-atrocity/

I'm not sure I'd use that word, which always sounds vaguely patronising and superficial to me. Decent certainly.

Yes I did watch it.. Do you know videos can be edited. Do you know good people can be made to look bad and vice versa. I see ***** deliberately provoking good people you see bad people. its all in the perception

Lets meet up and I will take you to the "no go" area that is Luton. We can shop in those shops and meet the very people who you think are hateful.

As a religion, Islam is every bit as wide-ranging and varied as Christianity. To try and portray all Muslims as pro-global caliphate jihadis is as ridiculous as saying that all Christians are creationists who deny evolution.

That video, I believe, was part of a BBC documentary.

It is there to be seen. Are you really that blinkered! That you refuse to do so, just casts doubt on your mindset.

But ok for you to do so, it seems ...

Hatred from both sides, it's a two way mindset. Here is the 'other side' and it's just as nasty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ae4xlZlsSLE&t=46s

Yep l dld, because what they are saying in that video ls a disgrace!!

We were in this instance, talking about Luton, and the hatred from the Muslim extremists there, which was being denied.

Yes, I know there are other 'nasties' out there? That has nothing to do with this though.

My reply was to your reply about the link I posted not your video that I have seen many times its always shown as proof Muslims are hateful .
BBC? Do people still hold up the BBC as a respected media?

so Germany is full of drug dealers and violence now from refuges, standing on street corners like the truck driver. what are we turning Europe into...arab gang vs African gangs roaming too.

" But as the country mourns the tragedy ahead of the festive season, it was revealed that Merkel had put massive pressure on unions to speed up the process in which unskilled refugees could be trained as lorry drivers.

The German leader said in September companies should "consider hiring and training refugees as lorry drivers" while they are awaiting their asylum procedure as there is a "big shortage of lorry drivers in the country."

She said that the plan was to get a change in the rules to make it cheaper for them to apply for a licence, with the plan for them to pay just £420 (500€) to swap a Syrian driving licence for a German one.

Unveiling the plan she said: "We all need to be ready to implement practical solutions. We have only recently discussed in the Cabinet the possibilities of allowing a Syrian driving licence to be converted to a German one for 500€.

The Organisation of German Professional Lorry Drivers (BDBK) led the opposition to the plan.

At the time, BDBK chairman Wolfgang Westermann said: "We give a definite no to use refugees as lorry drivers. Professional lorry drivers need a thorough and qualified education. You cannot let everyone drive off in a 40-ton lorry." " http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ristmas-market

Not sure of the reliability of the above article...

I think a huge part of the lack of integration has been because of incidents such as you describe above. From the very start, and without exception, if we had made it clear that integration by acceptance of our ways, our culture was essential if people wanted to come and live here, we could have eliminated most of the problems we now face.

Have you read the negative comments on here about the burqa? Muslim women are also abused in the streets for wearing it. Is that any different?

As she said "It's a tiny minority who play up". There are negative destructive attitudes from extremists on both sides.


Speaking of negative and destructive, can you back up your sweeping statement?
My City and another 12 miles away have large Muslim communities and I assure you this is not typical of either.
Do you know any Muslims, have any Muslim friends or associates? Have you ever visited your local mosque where I know you will be welcomed?

I agree there's too much leeway at times with more extreme Muslims which is totally wrong, naturally causes resentment and division and it's chiefly for the purpose of Politicians vote grabbing.
It's not unusual though for immigrant communities of different ethnic backgrounds to live together in their new countries. In both Cities in this part of the country we have distinctly separate residential areas for the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Chinese communities at least.

???????

I agree with you. Take most western counties over many decades in the 20th century. There wasn't really a problem.
But since the nineties with the increased level of immigration it was parallel to the rise of jihadist terrorist attacks.
I've always maintained on here that it's a case of too many too fast.

If people are entering a country in hundreds of thousands then they're likely to self-segregate, because it's easier. The path of least resistance. It would be the same for many people from different cultures. If British people went in huge numbers to a country we'd do the same.
When migrants enter a country at a reasonable level of migration they for the most part will be forced to acclimatize themselves to different customs in a different culture. That's how people can integrate. But when you're got thousands of people segregating themselves by choice then it's likely to create a parallel culture which adopts a way of life which may not be compatible with the culture of the host country.

Not only will people be self-segregating, it would be interesting to find out how the government address the needs of immigrants when it comes to locating them around the country to live. Do they cram them into housing in poor areas and thus ghettoize them and encouraging them to be segregated, or do Lilly Allen and Benedict Cumberbatch welcome them as neighbours to their communities?

If it's the case that there are large communities of Jews, Sikhs, Hindus or other religious or ethnic groups who can co-exist with native British people in their communities, why don't bad things start to happen within those communities in the same way that it's happening with some groups of Muslims who have migrated to Britain over the last 20 years or so? Why Muslims and why not those other groups?

There's a lot of talk about Merkel's refugee policy but it strikes me as this case is as much about a failure of police intelligence seeing as this guy was a criminal who had already been convicted of offences in another EU country and had been under surveillance earlier this year. If anything, the refugee / asylum seeker angle is something of a red herring, as he fits the profile of other terrorist attackers around Europe in the last 12 months or so.

I would have thought that by introducing a refugee policy then everything should have been put into place (security / identity checking / deportation etc) before letting a single refugee into the country. In this instance if deportation, for example, had been handled better his backside would have been on a plane seat there and then and possibly the recent deaths could have been avoided. He was roaming round for 6 months whilst Germany and Tunisia were faffing about with papers.

For sure, but it should be noted that this guy had been in Europe for five years and had been in prison in Italy, so his presence in Europe as a criminal had absolutely nothing to do with Merkel's response to the migrant crisis.

Having said that, it does look like the Germans and others may have to toughen up their laws surrounding refugees and asylum seekers, particularly involving anyone who has a criminal conviction.