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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin. |
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#1026 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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For sure, but it should be noted that this guy had been in Europe for five years and had been in prison in Italy, so his presence in Europe as a criminal had absolutely nothing to do with Merkel's response to the migrant crisis.
Having said that, it does look like the Germans and others may have to toughen up their laws surrounding refugees and asylum seekers, particularly involving anyone who has a criminal conviction. Even then how many are already biding their time? Wholeheartedly agree, re criminal convictions in particular. I think I've posted this before but I'm surprised and dismayed that there's not some sort of central info centre available. Hindsight is great I know but it's been said that this piece of scum had all the usual hallmarks - I'm waiting for the usual " lessons will be learned" faff which generally follows - a phrase I feel will be trotted out for years to come and all the time they pontificate more innocents die. |
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#1027 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 25,455
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I agree with you. Take most western counties over many decades in the 20th century. There wasn't really a problem.
But since the nineties with the increased level of immigration it was parallel to the rise of jihadist terrorist attacks. I've always maintained on here that it's a case of too many too fast. If people are entering a country in hundreds of thousands then they're likely to self-segregate, because it's easier. The path of least resistance. It would be the same for many people from different cultures. If British people went in huge numbers to a country we'd do the same. When migrants enter a country at a reasonable level of migration they for the most part will be forced to acclimatize themselves to different customs in a different culture. That's how people can integrate. But when you're got thousands of people segregating themselves by choice then it's likely to create a parallel culture which adopts a way of life which may not be compatible with the culture of the host country. Not only will people be self-segregating, it would be interesting to find out how the government address the needs of immigrants when it comes to locating them around the country to live. Do they cram them into housing in poor areas and thus ghettoize them and encouraging them to be segregated, or do Lilly Allen and Benedict Cumberbatch welcome them as neighbours to their communities? If it's the case that there are large communities of Jews, Sikhs, Hindus or other religious or ethnic groups who can co-exist with native British people in their communities, why don't bad things start to happen within those communities in the same way that it's happening with some groups of Muslims who have migrated to Britain over the last 20 years or so? Why Muslims and why not those other groups? I would suggest that it's something to do with the other groups having no instruction in their holy book to see non Jews, Sikhs, Hindus etc as lesser people. I remember seeing a video some time ago in which Medhi Hassan referred to the 'kuffar' as animals. Hard to imagine that seamless integration will be easy if this is what even a highly educated Muslim feels comfortable enough to share. |
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#1028 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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Have you read the negative comments on here about the burqa? Muslim women are also abused in the streets for wearing it. Is that any different?
As she said "It's a tiny minority who play up". There are negative destructive attitudes from extremists on both sides. Speaking of negative and destructive, can you back up your sweeping statement? My City and another 12 miles away have large Muslim communities and I assure you this is not typical of either. Do you know any Muslims, have any Muslim friends or associates? Have you ever visited your local mosque where I know you will be welcomed? Why on earth would I visit a Mosque? I am not the slightest bit religious, and I certainly would show no interest, nor encouragement to a religion with such backward views. The burka is a part of that, and the culture that goes with it. It is abhorrent. |
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#1029 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,618
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I feel it's going to take a lot more deaths before someone pulls their finger out and toughens things up, sadly.
Even then how many are already biding their time? Wholeheartedly agree, re criminal convictions in particular. I think I've posted this before but I'm surprised and dismayed that there's not some sort of central info centre available. Hindsight is great I know but it's been said that this piece of scum had all the usual hallmarks - I'm waiting for the usual " lessons will be learned" faff which generally follows - a phrase I feel will be trotted out for years to come and all the time they pontificate more innocents die. |
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#1030 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 508
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New Video of the truck going at speed before the attack .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub51E-UWojA |
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#1031 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 575
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Sorry if this has been talked about before, I just can't keep up with all of the news reports, half of which are reporting the same non-facts as the others. But I'm wondering, what stopped the truck? Did the driver give up and jump out? A semi "on the run" (I mean=(deliberately) being driven through objects at high speed) would easily cover much more distance, especially as it was carrying a lot of weight. So why was the path of destruction relatively short? I'm sorry, I know this sounds callous as 12 people have died but from a physics point of view, it should have been much worse. So what stopped it?
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#1032 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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Watching the coverage from Germany and it seems they weren't quite as prepared as the likes of France and the UK, as they haven't seen much in the way of terrorist attacks (one reason perhaps is that they are not involved militarily in the Middle East). They are clearly going to have to start tightening up their laws and increasing security in the wake of this attack.
2010 European terror plot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_European_terror_plot |
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#1033 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,618
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Sorry if this has been talked about before, I just can't keep up with all of the news reports, half of which are reporting the same non-facts as the others. But I'm wondering, what stopped the truck? Did the driver give up and jump out? A semi "on the run" (I mean=(deliberately) being driven through objects at high speed) would easily cover much more distance, especially as it was carrying a lot of weight. So why was the path of destruction relatively short? I'm sorry, I know this sounds callous as 12 people have died but from a physics point of view, it should have been much worse. So what stopped it?
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#1034 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: London
Posts: 6,354
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If you are really that interested, there are plenty of videos out there. I didn't say on a typical day. On a day to day basis it's probably business as normal. However, if something is done which upsets them, causes offense etc, both very easily done seemingly, then you get what is portrayed on the video. In that particular case, a woman was taken in for questioning after her husband was arrested for a bomb incident.
Why on earth would I visit a Mosque? I am not the slightest bit religious, and I certainly would show no interest, nor encouragement to a religion with such backward views. The burka is a part of that, and the culture that goes with it. It is abhorrent. |
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#1035 |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,169
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Seems there might be some people at his mosque who may know something perhaps. Quote:
CCTV images appear to show Amri, a Tunisian national, standing outside a mosque in Berlin's Moabit neighbourhood just before 4am (pictured bottom) - nearly eight hours after the attack, German broadcaster RBB reported. Security cameras also captured Amri visiting the same mosque in the days leading up to the terror strike (on December 14 and top right, on December 15).
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#1036 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: goo goo ka choo
Posts: 25,475
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Sorry if this has been talked about before, I just can't keep up with all of the news reports, half of which are reporting the same non-facts as the others. But I'm wondering, what stopped the truck? Did the driver give up and jump out? A semi "on the run" (I mean=(deliberately) being driven through objects at high speed) would easily cover much more distance, especially as it was carrying a lot of weight. So why was the path of destruction relatively short? I'm sorry, I know this sounds callous as 12 people have died but from a physics point of view, it should have been much worse. So what stopped it?
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#1037 |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,719
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Pakistani man seen fleeing from the scene ("in case they think it was me! ") at that time it could have been an accident for all anyone knew! His excuse alone is suspicious ,speaks no German, now is on the run lol you couldnt make it up. What is probability he was involved?
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#1038 |
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 138
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Welcomed at the mosque? I agree with you, I wouldn't want to visit one either any more than I'd visit the "church of scientology" to be brainwashed into handing over all my money amd worldly goods. Of course you'd be welcome at the mosque, muslims get brownie points from allah for converting non muslims to islam. It's nothing to do with being welcoming, it's part of getting into the heart of paradise once they've left this earth.
'Cover my hair' ? 'Come in through the back door.' ? 'Stay in the women only bit'. I don't think so!
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#1039 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,029
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Sorry if this has been talked about before, I just can't keep up with all of the news reports, half of which are reporting the same non-facts as the others. But I'm wondering, what stopped the truck? Did the driver give up and jump out? A semi "on the run" (I mean=(deliberately) being driven through objects at high speed) would easily cover much more distance, especially as it was carrying a lot of weight. So why was the path of destruction relatively short? I'm sorry, I know this sounds callous as 12 people have died but from a physics point of view, it should have been much worse. So what stopped it?
That video of dashcam footage that mick r has linked to shows the speed. He must have braked. Visibility through that windscreen looked minimal in the photos - all shattered. Maybe his plan was always to jump out? He maybe knew he would need the gun later, during his escape. Just speculation based on them not finding gun nor knife. (And It's unclear whether he was prepped with a change of clothes or simply took off a few bloody layers and stashed them in the cab at some point. ) |
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#1040 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,864
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38402743
Interesting choice of words from the victims brother. "I am sure that my brother is innocent. I know why he left home: he left for economic reasons... to work, to help the family, he didn't go for [terrorism] reasons." So no mention of dodging bombs or assassination attempts by the government then? I thougt he needed asylum because his life was in imminent and real danger? |
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#1041 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 575
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There were reports earlier in the thread about the original driver of the lorry, sadly one of those killed, who had injuries which suggested he had been trying to wrestle the steering wheel off the perpetrator who hijacked the lorry before he was shot.
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This part is unclear as the truck doesn't appear to have crashed to a halt. Another very unusual aspect is that the attacker fled the scene. Normally these attacks are effectively suicide attacks in that the person intends dying in or after the incident by one means or another.
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Good question but no answer.
That video of dashcam footage that mick r has linked to shows the speed. He must have braked. Visibility through that windscreen looked minimal in the photos - all shattered. Maybe his plan was always to jump out? He maybe knew he would need the gun later, during his escape. Just speculation based on them not finding gun nor knife. (And It's unclear whether he was prepped with a change of clothes or simply took off a few bloody layers and stashed them in the cab at some point. ) What disturbs me the most, however, is the fact that we have come to a point where a terrorist attack is merely statistics. The DM doesn't even run headline news about the identities of the victims any more, they are simply 12 anonymous bodies. How on earth did it get this bad this fast? |
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#1042 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,029
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Interesting that in the blame-game in Germany, the sec services seem to be coming off worst, especially citing comms issues between their federal states. Quote:
With a man feared armed and dangerous still on the loose three days after Monday’s deadly attack, German politicians rounded on the country’s security services, with one politician accusing intelligence agencies of “catastrophic mistakes”. “What we are dealing with is a failure of government that cannot be tolerated,” the opposition politician Christian Lindner of the Free Democrats told the German news agency DPA. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...pect-anis-amriA deputy chairman of Merkel’s Christian Democratic party accused intelligence agencies of incompetence, saying Wednesday’s reports on security failures had left him “shocked”. -Also cops explain why they did not find the wallet quickly in the link here. - Prison authorities also noted how aggressive he was during his two stints inside. ( apparently Tunisia has done this before - delayed papers in deportation cases. ) - Also, Tunisia was meant to be put on the list of "safe" countries, along with others such as Morocco & Algeria BUT it's been bogged down in German Parlt due to questions of human rights there so never got passed. ) Does anyone know if those 3 countries are also classed as unsafe by our immigration authorities? |
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#1043 |
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Join Date: Sep 2014
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And in other news Australian Police have foiled an attack scheduled fir Christmas Day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-38411935 |
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#1044 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,029
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Quote:
snipped
What disturbs me the most, however, is the fact that we have come to a point where a terrorist attack is merely statistics. The DM doesn't even run headline news about the identities of the victims any more, they are simply 12 anonymous bodies. How on earth did it get this bad this fast? On your previous point, Considering ISIS M.O. is to have a "spectacular" and slay as many as possible, it seems odd that he veered off to the left and stopped. IDK if there's any link to the article I posted a while ago from WSJournal which claimed intelligence that ISIS were currently looking at what they called "exploratory" attacks, (smaller-scale) to test security and response times. |
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#1045 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38402743
Interesting choice of words from the victims brother. "I am sure that my brother is innocent. I know why he left home: he left for economic reasons... to work, to help the family, he didn't go for [terrorism] reasons." So no mention of dodging bombs or assassination attempts by the government then? I thougt he needed asylum because his life was in imminent and real danger? |
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#1046 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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And in other news Australian Police have foiled an attack scheduled fir Christmas Day.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-38411935 Your link: Prominent targets, 5 men in 20s, majority Aus-born but Lebanese heritage, plan to use explosives, self-radicalised, inspired by ISIS shite. Wonder if Aus being part of Five Eyes alliance has anything to do with their success here? |
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#1047 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
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What about his time inside, did he not know about that?
Noted that he comments only on the "dishonour" to his family, don't see any mention of justice for the victims. Has any of the family mentioned the victims? I haven't come across any explicit ref to dead/injured in any of their comments to press so far. eg. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38402743 BBC also notes that Amir was on a US no-fly list !!! |
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#1048 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Dirty thirty and proud!
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Quote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38402743
Interesting choice of words from the victims brother. "I am sure that my brother is innocent. I know why he left home: he left for economic reasons... to work, to help the family, he didn't go for [terrorism] reasons." So no mention of dodging bombs or assassination attempts by the government then? I thougt he needed asylum because his life was in imminent and real danger? |
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#1049 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20,674
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Wonder if Angela Merkel still feels no guilt ...
(July 2016) "Angela Merkel has delivered a staunch defence of her open-door policy towards refugees, insisting she feels no guilt over a series of violent attacks in Germany and was right to allow hundreds of thousands of migrants and refugees to arrive last summer. https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-after-attacks |
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#1050 |
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,029
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It is perfectly possible that he told his family all those years ago that he was going to Europe to find work, but later, when in Europe, told the authorities that he wished to claim asylum
ETA - his dad mentions a robbery , just found in my post on previous page. |
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Even then how many are already biding their time? 
'Cover my hair' ? 'Come in through the back door.' ? 'Stay in the women only bit'. I don't think so!