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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.


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Old 23-12-2016, 10:45
LakieLady
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Couldn't agree more. But apparently Tunisia refused to accept him back because he apparently had no ID documentation. Which is really like saying that if one of us was abroad and lost our passport, we'd be refused entry back to the UK, ad infinitum.

Ridiculous.
Not at all. How could they be sure he was a Tunisian national if he didn't have any ID that said so? You can only deport people back to their own country (save for in certain specific circumstances).

The UK government would establish that a passport had been issued to you and that you were the person named on that passport, and then give you either a document that allowed you to enter the country or a new passport. Not all countries do that.

I have a Turkish friend who fled to the UK and claimed asylum. Despite having a Turkish ID card, the Turkish government have said told UKBA/Home Office that they "do not recognise her" as a Turkish citizen. She can't go anywhere abroad, as she can't get any sort of travel documents. She has been given leave to remain in the UK for 5 years, but has no idea what will happen then. She does at least know that she can't be deported, as she's technically stateless atm.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:46
duckylucky
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Several, why? Muslims have lived in this country for a very long time. I'm ancient and have many Muslim friends and ex-work associates. If anyone is genuinely interested in integration, getting to know their Muslim community, they're a good place to start.

Much the same applies to the Jewish, Hindus and Sikhs who also mainly choose to live in their own areas and not socialise in general. I've never been aware of being made to adapt to anything or change my way of life.
We can only agree to disagree



Sadly, I wouldn't expect any other response



He was probably determined to get himself shot and his handlers will be relieved about the intelligence gone with him. Exactly what they aim for.
So he travelled all the way to Milan in his determination ? I am quite sure he could have managed to get himself shot in Berlin that day by waving his gun about .Its not rocket science that he would have been shot dead if that was his aim
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:48
flashfiction
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I think his actions, and what we know show his guilt. This is a good result, and predictable.

The only downside is that there are plenty more like him waiting to carry out the next murderous act.
BIB . I got it .

Mine was a tongue in cheek response to the poster who keeps repeating re. the ethical implications of death of a suspect ( pre-trial)
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:50
Trulytrue
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Pffffft but real muslims ARE different to British men. Very different as the vast majority live by the koran. They treat women differently than British men do. No British man has insisted I cover my face when I go out for starters. Oh and yes I'm aware there are British muslims, I'm just answering your post. When I find a British boyfriend who makes me wear a burka or a balaclava in public or if male vistors come to visit I'll eat my words on here.
There are plenty of controlling British men. Ask any abused women about that. The Koran does not say a women has to cover herself its only how many men interpret it. Same as British men who are controlling will not let their GF/wife wear clothes she wants or make-up. Shall I say all British men are controlling because of the few that I know? Just like British couples there are 1000s where the women has the final say and 1000s where men do.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:50
Deep Purple
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BIB . I got it .

Mine was a tongue in cheek response to the poster who keeps repeating re. the ethical implications of death of a suspect ( pre-trial)
Sorry. I've just read a bit more, and see what you're saying.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:51
flashfiction
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Not at all. How could they be sure he was a Tunisian national if he didn't have any ID that said so? You can only deport people back to their own country (save for in certain specific circumstances).
Strange then that Tunisia did send the relevant documents without the BIB.

second, articles say this has been happening for years with Tunisia. Sometimes they don't even bother replying to requests.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:51
Horza's Drone
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Why was an "Islamic State associated mosque" allowed to operate in Berlin?
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:52
flashfiction
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Sorry. I've just read a bit more, and see what you're saying.
No problem - sometimes I choose to be less direct/ not explicit as then I can avoid being insulting to anyone.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:52
Deep Purple
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You are a bit rubbish at quoting from memory


A "suspect" isn't yet guilty of anything. To say "good" even when you have no idea if the person was guilty or not shows me how uncaring some people are. Lets remember many innocent people have been killed by the armed forces and the police over the years.

I compared the hatred of some people on here for Muslims to the holocaust and how a country was persuaded to hate a huge population .
He shot at a policeman, and was shot in return. He was guilty of attempted murder. The evidence released shows he was most likely responsible for mass murder too, and if he was being wrongly accused of that, he had options to address that, rather than trying to kill other people.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:53
pianoforte
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wonderful news, well done the Italian police.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:54
flashfiction
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Why was an "Islamic State associated mosque" allowed to operate in Berlin?
have you got a link?
All i found was that it had had basement accommodation so that could also be the reason he was spotted outside at 4am.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:54
NeverEnough
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You are a bit rubbish at quoting from memory


A "suspect" isn't yet guilty of anything. To say "good" even when you have no idea if the person was guilty or not shows me how uncaring some people are. Lets remember many innocent people have been killed by the armed forces and the police over the years.

I compared the hatred of some people on here for Muslims to the holocaust and how a country was persuaded to hate a huge population .
Well if innocent he could have surrendered to police and answered questions, and faced trail if necessary. Instead he chose open fire on the police. I've got to admit that a loaded gun certainly isn't part of my usual travel pack when I travel. Is it something you carry regularly?

After all the German police seem reasonable and had already released one innocent party. I'm sure their would be a reasonable explanation of why his fingerprints were found in the truck, why he went on the run, and why he didn't hand himself into police when his face was plastered all over the media for the past few days. And oh yeah, why he was found in possession of the same gun that killed the Polish driver.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:55
Rekekah_Carter
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Trouble is, Your mind is so open all kinds of rubbish falls into it.

Just this post alone shows you get all your info 2nd 3rd and 4th hand.

Real Muslims are no different from British men. You get arseholes in all walks of life Ive met more controlling British men than Muslims ones. This is why you need to find out the truth for yourself. If you went to meet some you would feel very silly for your brainwashed ways
It's not me who appears to be brainwashed. You seem to be in denial and grasping at straws, once again. Nothing more to say really.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:55
eggchen
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Thank goodness he didn't head here. A routine stop by one of our unarmed officers might well have been disastrous.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:55
LakieLady
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Not in mine. Even more so in a Western country.
So you don't think women should be allowed to wear what they like?

I agree there are issues around volition v cultural oppression, but if a woman really wants to wear a burqa, I don't have a problem with it.

In fact, I can see there might be something kind of liberating about it, tbh. Imagine never having to worry what you looked like? Bad hair days, VPLs and muffin tops just wouldn't matter. You could simply chuck it on over your pj's, slip your shoes on and you'd be ready to go to work.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:56
hufflestuff
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You are a bit rubbish at quoting from memory


A "suspect" isn't yet guilty of anything. To say "good" even when you have no idea if the person was guilty or not shows me how uncaring some people are. Lets remember many innocent people have been killed by the armed forces and the police over the years.

I compared the hatred of some people on here for Muslims to the holocaust and how a country was persuaded to hate a huge population .
I really don't give a crap what you think of my quoting from memory skills. He's a dead terrorist and I'm glad of that.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:56
Horza's Drone
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have you got a link?
All i found was that it had had basement accommodation so that could also be the reason he was spotted outside at 4am.
At 10:42 on the live update page currently running on the Guardian.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:56
flashfiction
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so he didn't hook - up + get more weapons after the attack. Same gun used.

There is a report that Amri used the same gun in last night’s shoot out as was used to kill the Polish lorry driver, who was the first victim of the Berlin attack.
route taken by rail
Chambéry, France –> Turin –> Milan, arrival at 1am last night
https://www.theguardian.com/world/li...-live-coverage
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:57
Rekekah_Carter
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All Muslims therefore are going to commit mass murder.
Oh dear, oh dear! Another one putting words in my mouth. I neither said, nor implied that.

We were talking about Burkas!
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:57
Trulytrue
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Where did I say, or even imply this?

We are talking about this piece of scum, whom you were sympathising with. Very questionable, in my opinion.
Please show me where I sympathised with this man? I only question if they were guilty or not, A question sadly lacking from yourself
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:58
Horza's Drone
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So you don't think women should be allowed to wear what they like?

I agree there are issues around volition v cultural oppression, but if a woman really wants to wear a burqa, I don't have a problem with it.

In fact, I can see there might be something kind of liberating about it, tbh. Imagine never having to worry what you looked like? Bad hair days, VPLs and muffin tops just wouldn't matter. You could simply chuck it on over your pj's, slip your shoes on and you'd be ready to go to work.
Are you gay or lesbian then? You seem thrilled with the idea of being surrounded by those who believe in conservative religious dogma, so I'm guessing you're not.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:59
Trulytrue
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It's not me who appears to be brainwashed. You seem to be in denial and grasping at straws, once again. Nothing more to say really.
Really because I have met many Muslims who are nothing like you think, (or been told to put it correctly ) I am brainwashed?
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:59
Rekekah_Carter
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You are a bit rubbish at quoting from memory


A "suspect" isn't yet guilty of anything. To say "good" even when you have no idea if the person was guilty or not shows me how uncaring some people are. Lets remember many innocent people have been killed by the armed forces and the police over the years.

I compared the hatred of some people on here for Muslims to the holocaust and how a country was persuaded to hate a huge population .
You really need to stop twisting peoples words to suit your agenda.
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Old 23-12-2016, 10:59
flashfiction
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At 10:42 on the live update page currently running on the Guardian.
Tx, yes got it now.

..........entering an Isis (Islamic State)-associated mosque in Berlin on 14 and 15 December and again leaving it seven hours after the attack.
connected somehow to that Salafist "king- pin " ( recruiter who had also preached) arrested November - maybe.??

ETA another Guardian article gives more detail
The mosque on Perleberger Strasse is connected to the Fussilet 33 association, which has in the past been under police surveillance because of alleged attempts to recruit new members for Islamic State. The mosque was raided by police on Thursday but no arrests were made.
The mosque on Perleberger Strasse is a 15-minute walk from the site of Thyssenkrupp, where Polish truck driver Łukasz Urban was due to drop off his cargo on Monday
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...njuries-mosque
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:02
flashfiction
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Oh dear, oh dear! Another one putting words in my mouth. I neither said, nor implied that.

We were talking about Burkas!
Polite suggestion - do you fancy going making a thread of your own on the burqa please? Others may want to join you over there?
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