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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.


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Old 23-12-2016, 11:25
NeverEnough
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Given that I know that borders between Schengen countries are effectively non-existent, and have been for many years, it doesn't bother me any more than any armed criminal crossing the border between Kent and East Sussex.
And if Schengen was abolished and the borders were reinstated. Then this guy could have been stopped in 2015 when he left Italy. Or is that it Schengen is here to stay and will never be repealed? And people wonder why the Far Right is gaining ground in Europe!
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:27
Trulytrue
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He had a gun, and shot at a policeman. He was guilty of that, and got the appropriate response.


That is fine I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with people being happy a suspect was shot without even knowing the details. I would rather wait and be sure the right people died.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:28
blueblade
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WE would have to prove that we were British before the UK accepted us back. It sounds as if he was obstructive and the Tunisian authorities did nothing to assist the Germans.

If any Tom, Dick or Harriet turns up at the British Embassy there would be stringent checks before we'd be allowed travel documents to return to the UK.
Precisely, whereas I'm pretty sure the UK authorities would.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:29
LakieLady
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Are you allowed to wear a burka at your place of work?

It is diversive and limiting. It does not fit in here, or any non-muslim country.
I've never asked, but I'd be very surprised if I wasn't. I work for an organisation that prides itself on challenging prejudice and valuing diversity.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:30
blueblade
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That is fine I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with people being happy a suspect was shot without even knowing the details. I would rather wait and be sure the right people died.
Marco Minniti, the Italian Interior Minister, has already confirmed there is absolutely no doubt it was Amri.

Don't forget they know all about him in Italy. He was in prison there. They will already have his fingerprints and DNA on file. An immediate check would have been on tap.

It's definitely him.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:31
Dotheboyshall
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Oh dear, oh dear! Another one putting words in my mouth. I neither said, nor implied that.

We were talking about Burkas!
You have a view that Muslims are defined purely by their faith, therefore if one commits murder it must mean alluslims commit murder. What is the link between burka wearing and being an Islamist terrorist?
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:34
LakieLady
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Only because he was "suspected" of a crime.

I would be saying the same thing had the police here shot a British suspect , We all know how wrong they sometimes get it.
Call me old-fashioned, but generally I prefer law enforcement to be done by the arrest-trial-sentence method. However, in this case I accept that it's a reasonable outcome.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:35
NeverEnough
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That is fine I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with people being happy a suspect was shot without even knowing the details. I would rather wait and be sure the right people died.
I'm not "happy" that a man who at very least tried to murder a policeman in the line of duty had been killed, nor am I sad. If anything I'm relieved that no one else was hurt when he chose to let the bullets fly.

He had the option to surrender, he chose not to. The officer had to neutralise the threat. The suspect made a decision which cost him his life. His fault and his fault alone.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:36
louisa320
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Sorry, I meant if he was caught he would probably want to be killed as a martyr. Thankfully the scum didn't manage to kill anyone else that we know of.


There's a Lybian plane hijacking going on now in Malta, 111 passengers on board.
118 on board they are saying Anne.
l hope this ends with a happy ending. ..
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:36
Horza's Drone
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I know quite a few Muslims who don't have a problem with homosexuality, and a gay Muslim who does voluntary work for a gay Muslim organisation. I know some who drink alcohol, too.

A lot of people can't see beyond the stereotype when it comes to Muslims.
How often do these "gay" muslims go to a mosque? Or are they muslim in the same way that I'm a "Christian"...
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:41
Deep Purple
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That is fine I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with people being happy a suspect was shot without even knowing the details. I would rather wait and be sure the right people died.
If you've no problem with that, you can forget anything else he may have done. That will be established later.

He was shot because he attempted to murder the police in Italy. They acted properly, and he got what he deserved.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:44
LakieLady
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How often do these "gay" muslims go to a mosque? Or are they muslim in the same way that I'm a "Christian"...
At least 2 of them of go to the mosque regularly. One of them quips that if they don't want gays in the mosque, they shouldn't have built it in Dyke Road.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:45
Geelong Cat
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From what we've heard so far, it doesn't sound like this guy was part of some sophisticated ISIS operation, does it? I mean, he was forced to travel by train - risky whichever way you look at it: what if the ticket inspector or one of the passengers had recognised him? Perhaps we should be very thankful he wasn't identified while on the train! - and then was found wandering the streets in Milan two hours after arriving. No reports so far that he'd gotten hold of fake ID for travelling, doesn't seem to have had anywhere to stay in Milan. Seems as if he made the attempt to flee entirely off his own back.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:46
anne_666
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Some people seem to think otherwise I'm afraid, Anne. In fact, some people seem to think that integration is the wholesale adoption of the host culture by immigrant populations and anything less than that is a threat to the host nation's way of life.

Being an old fart, I can remember my grandmother saying all this about Caribbean immigrants back in 1960. It's as wrong now as it was then.
I was born in 1948 and lived through a lot of it. Caribbean, Irish, Jewish etc etc.etc. They were all scary bogey men. The attitude is probably a lot to do with being an insular island race with delusions of superiority born out of rabid Colonialism.
The whinging about Muslims goes way back before my time with the poisonous Daily Mail at the helm condemning every kind of immigrant in their insular divisive quest.
Along with any contribution made to society always conveniently ignored.
The migrant crisis and Europe haplessly allowing all migrants, especially Muslims en masse, to enter and stay to feed Germany's needs was always guaranteed to cause chaos. It didn't begin with mad Merkel's invitation either.

118 on board they are saying Anne.
l hope this ends with a happy ending. ..
So do I louisa. They have hand grenades and are threatening to blow up the plane. I hope we're not entering another era of hijackings!
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:49
MAW
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At least 2 of them of go to the mosque regularly. One of them quips that if they don't want gays in the mosque, they shouldn't have built it in Dyke Road.
Do they use the ladies entrance? That'll be the back passage.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:51
NeverEnough
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From what we've heard so far, it doesn't sound like this guy was part of some sophisticated ISIS operation, does it? I mean, he was forced to travel by train - risky whichever way you look at it: what if the ticket inspector or one of the passengers had recognised him? Perhaps we should be very thankful he wasn't identified while on the train! - and then was found wandering the streets in Milan two hours after arriving. No reports so far that he'd gotten hold of fake ID for travelling, doesn't seem to have had anywhere to stay in Milan. Seems as if he made the attempt to flee entirely off his own back.
So who was he then? What were his motives to allegedly drive a heavy lorry into a crowd? Why do I get the feeling that the "he was mentally ill" line is being approached here
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:55
Sifter22
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From what we've heard so far, it doesn't sound like this guy was part of some sophisticated ISIS operation, does it? I mean, he was forced to travel by train - risky whichever way you look at it: what if the ticket inspector or one of the passengers had recognised him? Perhaps we should be very thankful he wasn't identified while on the train! - and then was found wandering the streets in Milan two hours after arriving. No reports so far that he'd gotten hold of fake ID for travelling, doesn't seem to have had anywhere to stay in Milan. Seems as if he made the attempt to flee entirely off his own back.
ISIS actively encouraged these kind of attacks.
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:55
Geelong Cat
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So who was he then? What were his motives to allegedly drive a heavy lorry into a crowd? Why do I get the feeling that the "he was mentally ill" line is being approached here
I have no idea why you get that feeling from what I posted, it's odd.

Why do you think not being part of a sophisticated ISIS operation means he must've been mentally ill?
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:55
Geelong Cat
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ISIS actively encouraged these kind of attacks.
Well of course.

What does that have to do with anything?
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Old 23-12-2016, 11:58
mick r
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Very amateurish and looks staged .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UCPepG87mA
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Old 23-12-2016, 12:00
NeverEnough
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I have no idea why you get that feeling from what I posted, it's odd.

Why do you think not being part of a sophisticated ISIS operation means he must've been mentally ill?
So you accept that he wasn't mentally ill?

What do you believe his motives were then?
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Old 23-12-2016, 12:01
Sifter22
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Well of course.

What does that have to do with anything?
That it's linked with ISIS completely.
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Old 23-12-2016, 12:02
Trulytrue
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Marco Minniti, the Italian Interior Minister, has already confirmed there is absolutely no doubt it was Amri.

Don't forget they know all about him in Italy. He was in prison there. They will already have his fingerprints and DNA on file. An immediate check would have been on tap.

It's definitely him.
I'm not "happy" that a man who at very least tried to murder a policeman in the line of duty had been killed, nor am I sad. If anything I'm relieved that no one else was hurt when he chose to let the bullets fly.

He had the option to surrender, he chose not to. The officer had to neutralise the threat. The suspect made a decision which cost him his life. His fault and his fault alone.
If you've no problem with that, you can forget anything else he may have done. That will be established later.

He was shot because he attempted to murder the police in Italy. They acted properly, and he got what he deserved.

I think I have worded my post badly..

"That is fine I have no problems with that. I just have a problem with people being happy a suspect was shot without even knowing the details. I would rather wait and be sure the right people died."



I meant I prefer to wait until all the info is in, before I say good result. Does that make more sense? When someone posted "the suspect has now been shot dead" a couple of people said "good" without even knowing the details..
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Old 23-12-2016, 12:03
too_much_coffee
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The "peaceniks" who post on here will be along shortly to complain about the wicked policeman doing his duty and shooting this murdering terrorist dead, and breaking some obscure convention
There will be demands for the policeman to be imprisoned for murder
What a ridiculous thing to say - and deliberately intended to provoke venomous comments towards anyone who isn't to the right of Genghis Khan.

I fall into the category of "peacenik" and hail the quick actions of the Italian police in that they have probably prevented other deaths from this evil terrorist. Nobody is going to call for the officer to be disciplined or punished. I would have preferred him to have lived to face justice and enable the security services to garner intelligence from him.

Yeah, good luck with that one.

I can't see how the situation would have been any different if an alleged terrorist with a loaded gun had been on a train full of people in Germany and then attempted to murder a German police officer, and he wouldn't have needed to cross any borders for that.
Exactly!
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Old 23-12-2016, 12:04
MargMck
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So do tell us how with your no doubt expert eye you have decided this is very amateurish and looks staged.
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