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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.
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RobinOfLoxley
23-12-2016
I've no reason to doubt the official account, but just because a story is on multiple media outlets, does not mean it is multiple source.
NeverEnough
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Geelong Cat:
“Where did I say he wasn't linked to ISIS? It seems as if you've taken my post and gone off on a tangent.

My point, to restate it, is that this attack and the man's actions afterwards look pretty amateurish. Perhaps that's because it was - it's not difficult to hijack a truck and drive it into a group of people, after all. My impression of ISIS is that they're a sophisticated group with a network of people across Europe - that something like this would be planned carefully, including ways to get the person out of the country afterwards. Established ways for people to get across borders while minimising the risk, providing fake identity papers, contacts in different cities who could provide people with a place to stay, that kind of thing.

But this attack looks like it was carried out by someone who, while undoubtedly being heavily influenced by ISIS and having links to them, pretty much decided to act on his own. It doesn't look sophisticated. In fact he looks like an idiot. If he'd worn gloves and not dropped his identity papers, they'd have had real difficulty catching him. And aside from being an idiot, it seems no one really helped him to flee after the attack either (I mean, he had 24 hours to get out! He could've been in Tunisia before they even knew it was him).

But as I said before, perhaps I'm simply wrong to assume ISIS are very organized. Perhaps it really is just individuals carrying out these attacks, without any strong organisational network behind them. Perhaps ISIS operates in this more haphazard way rather than with sophisticated world-wide planning (attacks like 9/11 aside).”

Ah now I'm with you. So you accept that this was an in all probability an attack influenced and inspired by Islamic State. An organisation with the stated intention of establishing a theocratic intolerant worldwide caliphate. And there is no credible evidence at all that this individual was mentally ill, just not very bright. We at least have concensus on this. Do we also have consensus that this guy may not be the only fake asylum seeker running around borderless Europe today? (Unless you wish to argue that this guy was genuinely in need of refugee status).

So if we have consensus for this what's your solution to the problem of identifying those who wish to commit mass religiously motivated murder before they can carry out their plans?
Trulytrue
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by planets:
“I'm another who doesn't quite understand. Before "the suspect" was shot (because he shot an Italian policeman), he had been identified as Amri Anis by his fingerprints on the outside and inside of the hijacked lorry. His fingerprints were on file because he had served several years in prison for setting fire to a refugee centre. Prior to that he had left Tunisia because he was wanted for armed robbery. During his time in prison in Italy he is recorded as bullying other prisoners and was consequently held in six different prisons in Sicily. All those details were known when he was on the run.

He then shot a policeman and was shot and killed in response at which point it was discovered by his fingerprints he was indeed Amri Anis. The gun he shot the policeman with was reported as being the same gun the Polish driver of the lorry was killed with. All this was reported when the announcement of his death was made.”

Not on this thread it wasn't Someone post the suspect has been shot within moments we had "Good" Forgive me for wanting a little but more info before celebrating what could have been a innocent man's death. . They had the wrong man before so could have been wrong again.. They didn't, so all is well on that front it seems
planets
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Trulytrue:
“Not on this thread it wasn't Someone post the suspect has been shot within moments we had "Good" Forgive me for wanting a little but more info before celebrating what could have been a innocent man's death. . They had the wrong man before so could have been wrong again.. They didn't, so all is well on that front it seems”

Maybe they, like me, didn't rely on this thread for their news and actually read articles with the details in.

Also there was no possibility of it being "an innocent man's death" because he was shot in response to shooting a policeman. So even if it wasn't Amri Anis he had shot and injured a policeman.
NeverEnough
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Trulytrue:
“For goodness sake. My post was aimed at those who said GOOD before any other details were given . What part of that are you not getting?

Seems like this is a habit of yours, replying too people to fast and not taking in what they are saying. Please do not reply to me again with the same type of post. I have clarified what I meant for you three or four times now!”

With all due respect you haven't clarified anything. The details have been available for a few hours now. The suspect was shot in Milan after firing at police officers. Would you like me to post some links? What other details do you require?
jmclaugh
23-12-2016
It is being reported the Tunisian who apparently drove the truck in Berlin and was shot dead in Milan fled to Italy after being involved in an armed robbery in Tunisia. He served a prison sentence in Italy for setting fire to a school and refugee reception centre. On his release he was asked to leave the country but instead he travelled to Germany to claim asylum which was rejected. His return to Italy after the Berlin truck attack was only discovered by a spot check which led to him being being shot dead when he wounded a police officer.

It would appear the authorites have a good deal more to do in terms of dealing with foreign nationals they've asked to leave or who have been refused asylum, sharing information on them and tracking them across Schengen borders.
francie
23-12-2016
One less to worry about. No sympathy whatsoever. Well done to the person who shot him.
Palafrugel
23-12-2016
Just shot dead in Italy by Italian police. Screamed the rebel slogan 'Allahu Akbar' before he was gunned down. All tied in a nice neat bow it seems. Back to the status quo.
SnowStorm86
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“One less to worry about. No sympathy whatsoever. Well done to the person who shot him.”

I hope he died in immense pain.
Caxton
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“One less to worry about. No sympathy whatsoever. Well done to the person who shot him.”

One less piece of crap in the world to worry about. Just a pity he was apparently killed outright and did not suffer. Ideally a shot in his crown jewels first would have been my favourite, followed by a few hours of intense pain, before his final demise.
francie
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by SnowStorm86:
“I hope he died in immense pain.”

Originally Posted by Caxton:
“One less piece of crap in the world to worry about. Just a pity he was apparently killed outright and did not suffer. Ideally a shot in his crown jewels first would have been my favourite, followed by a few hours of intense pain, before his final demise.”

Quick or slow I don't really care as long as the vermin is no more. An unmarked grave would be nice, his name never to be mentioned or remembered,
MinnieMinz
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Trulytrue:
“Not on this thread it wasn't Someone post the suspect has been shot within moments we had "Good" Forgive me for wanting a little but more info before celebrating what could have been a innocent man's death. . They had the wrong man before so could have been wrong again.. They didn't, so all is well on that front it seems”

I'm sorry I don't want to forgive posters who constantly excuse the actions of ISIS (I'm not indicating you are, I am talking generally). Each and every time we get these murderers killing innocent people the same old "you don't know it's ISIS" excuse gets brought out. Each and every time, it's ISIS. Perhaps some posters need to stop being so keen on being PC and start worrying about how they can continue to slaughter us in this manner, while some still don't see them as a threat and continue to welcome them across our borders.
Pink_Smurf
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“I'm sorry I don't want to forgive posters who constantly excuse the actions of ISIS (I'm not indicating you are, I am talking generally). Each and every time we get these murderers killing innocent people the same old "you don't know it's ISIS" excuse gets brought out. Each and every time, it's ISIS. Perhaps some posters need to stop being so keen on being PC and start worrying about how they can continue to slaughter us in this manner, while some still don't see them as a threat and continue to welcome them across our borders.”

Very good post. I agree with every word.
blueblade
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Trulytrue:
“For goodness sake. My post was aimed at those who said GOOD before any other details were given . What part of that are you not getting?

Seems like this is a habit of yours, replying too people to fast and not taking in what they are saying. Please do not reply to me again with the same type of post. I have clarified what I meant for you three or four times now!”

Well what do you expect from a poster called "Never Enough"? lol
TeeGee
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“.................... Perhaps some posters need to stop being so keen on being PC and start worrying about how they can continue to slaughter us in this manner, while some still don't see them as a threat and continue to welcome them across our borders.”

With you all the way on that one Minnie.
blueblade
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by SnowStorm86:
“I hope he died in immense pain.”

Not nearly as much pain as his ISIS colleagues inflict.

Listening to Frank Gardner, Security Correspondent at the BBC earlier, who was talking about how evil ISIS are and as an example, how they videoed two Turkish border guards they had captured, as they literally burnt them alive.
Susie_Smith
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Trulytrue:
“Not on this thread it wasn't Someone post the suspect has been shot within moments we had "Good" Forgive me for wanting a little but more info before celebrating what could have been a innocent man's death. . They had the wrong man before so could have been wrong again.. They didn't, so all is well on that front it seems”

He's not innocent though is he. Even if we assume he had nothing to do with the Christmas market and was somehow set up by someone/the authorities, he definitely shot a police officer, presumably with the intent to kill him, and could easily have gone on to kill others if he had not been shot.
MinnieMinz
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Pink_Smurf:
“Very good post. I agree with every word.”

Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“With you all the way on that one Minnie.”

Thanks both. I'm getting a bit tired of Ds's resident "but buts", they say they are not excusing their actions. They say they are waiting for "proof". It's always ISIS, the same attack as Nice, yet still "but we don't know it's ISIS". Makes me weep sometimes, how weak some people are and how that is how we have become constant victims. From pussyfooting around a bunch or murdering brainwashed lunatics, for fear of being tagged "racist".
francie
23-12-2016
I see Angela Merkel is going to be discussing the deportation of rejected asylum seekers with the Tunisian president. Procedures should have been put in place before any were allowed in, imo.
blueblade
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by Caxton:
“One less piece of crap in the world to worry about. Just a pity he was apparently killed outright and did not suffer. Ideally a shot in his crown jewels first would have been my favourite, followed by a few hours of intense pain, before his final demise.”

You may have a point there. Whilst these arsewipes have no fear of death, they may have a fear of the method of death. I certainly would shed no tears if some died a long, protracted and exceedingly painful one, given what they do to others, whilst standing around laughing about it.

...and trust me, we could devise far more exquisitely worse ways than they could even begin to imagine.....

It won't and shouldn't happen, as we are civilised societies in Europe, who wouldn't stoop to their level of barbarity, but the thought is bound to be there.....
dearmrman
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“Thanks both. I'm getting a bit tired of Ds's resident "but buts", they say they are not excusing their actions. They say they are waiting for "proof". It's always ISIS, the same attack as Nice, yet still "but we don't know it's ISIS". Makes me weep sometimes, how weak some people are and how that is how we have become constant victims. From pussyfooting around a bunch or murdering brainwashed lunatics, for fear of being tagged "racist".”

Agree...oh and they always maybe mentally ill.
flashfiction
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Well what do you expect from a poster called "Never Enough"? lol ”

here have that for some humour amongst the head-banging repetition.
blueblade
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by flashfiction:
“here have that for some humour amongst the head-banging repetition.”

Cheers
The Amazing
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by MinnieMinz:
“Thanks both. I'm getting a bit tired of Ds's resident "but buts", they say they are not excusing their actions. They say they are waiting for "proof". It's always ISIS, the same attack as Nice, yet still "but we don't know it's ISIS". Makes me weep sometimes, how weak some people are and how that is how we have become constant victims. From pussyfooting around a bunch or murdering brainwashed lunatics, for fear of being tagged "racist".”

I kinda get what you mean but at the same time I don't really see what difference it makes if some people think one way and others another, other than denying the opportunity for everyone to circle jerk in arbitrary agreement.
flashfiction
23-12-2016
Originally Posted by francie:
“I see Angela Merkel is going to be discussing the deportation of rejected asylum seekers with the Tunisian president. Procedures should have been put in place before any were allowed in, imo.”

she'll need to get busy with morocco and algeria at the same time then ..........as they 're on the "unsafe" list for asylum seekers.

Then we'll need to have a look at our own in UK because we all know they'll be just as bad.
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