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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.


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Old 23-12-2016, 17:06
flashfiction
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"Things that don't matter"? Like 12 people dead and around 50 injured, a number seriously? Terrorism mattters very much for those people and their friends and families.

bib
assume the OP meant that arguing with 20 other DS posters on here, over the same point, was ultimately, of little personal value in comparison to other stuff and who can blame him/her
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:17
francie
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bib
assume the OP meant that arguing with 20 other DS posters on here, over the same point, was ultimately, of little personal value in comparison to other stuff and who can blame him/her
Just re-read the posts as I didn't know where the quoted bit was from. Post #1273 I presume.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:19
Incognito777
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Seeking asylum from Tunisia? Turned out to be a terrorist who murdered..well I never...
An expected result of many poor EU policies.
Merkels hug a 'refugee' policy is just ridiculous.
Germany showing again how to destroy Europe and its people.
Why are Germany always on the wrong side of history? and even more worrying was we following them this time?
One day in the future these current lot in charge will all be put on trial for their outrageously irresponsible and criminal actions both at home and abroad.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:20
Union Jock
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'German police have arrested two men suspected of planning an attack on a shopping mall – just days after a terror attack at a Berlin Christmas market.

The suspects, two brothers aged 28 and 31 who were born in Kosovo, were arrested in Duisburg in the industrial Ruhr region in the early hours of Friday'.


'They are suspected of plotting to strike the Centro mall in nearby Oberhausen, in the West German state of North Rhine-Westphalia.'


http://news.sky.com/story/german-pol...-plot-10705678

Germany again, why so??
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:24
sorcha_healy27
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'German police have arrested two men suspected of planning an attack on a shopping mall – just days after a terror attack at a Berlin Christmas market.

The suspects, two brothers aged 28 and 31 who were born in Kosovo, were arrested in Duisburg in the industrial Ruhr region in the early hours of Friday'.


'They are suspected of plotting to strike the Centro mall in nearby Oberhausen, in the West German state of North Rhine-Westphalia.'


http://news.sky.com/story/german-pol...-plot-10705678

Germany again, why so??


I lived in that region for over a year..it's a fabulous region with lovely people.

Germany really is going through the mill
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:31
sutie
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The difference being of course that they don't take their lead from a holy book for justification.
Some people seem to think otherwise I'm afraid, Anne. In fact, some people seem to think that integration is the wholesale adoption of the host culture by immigrant populations and anything less than that is a threat to the host nation's way of life.

Being an old fart, I can remember my grandmother saying all this about Caribbean immigrants back in 1960. It's as wrong now as it was then.

Edit: Don't know why the first quote has appeared. Please ignore.

We have a holiday home in France (a ruin when we bought it many years ago.) We chose France because we love the country, the people, their way of life, culture and traditions. We learned the language, don't take anything in the way of benefits etc. from them, and have given plenty of business to French shops, restaurants etc.

Although we don't live there, we do spend long periods of time there, and the very last thing that would ever enter our minds is that the French people should adapt themselves in any way to accommodate us. Why on earth should they? We chose them, they didn't choose us.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:35
Pink_Smurf
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'German police have arrested two men suspected of planning an attack on a shopping mall – just days after a terror attack at a Berlin Christmas market.

The suspects, two brothers aged 28 and 31 who were born in Kosovo, were arrested in Duisburg in the industrial Ruhr region in the early hours of Friday'.


'They are suspected of plotting to strike the Centro mall in nearby Oberhausen, in the West German state of North Rhine-Westphalia.'


http://news.sky.com/story/german-pol...-plot-10705678

Germany again, why so??
Thank god they have been stopped and innocent lives have been saved. I just dread to think how many more there are. Unfortunately the lone wolf attackers don't always tell anyone what they're going to do.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:45
Eurostar
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Seeking asylum from Tunisia? Turned out to be a terrorist who murdered..well I never...
An expected result of many poor EU policies.
Merkels hug a 'refugee' policy is just ridiculous.
Germany showing again how to destroy Europe and its people.

Why are Germany always on the wrong side of history? and even more worrying was we following them this time?
One day in the future these current lot in charge will all be put on trial for their outrageously irresponsible and criminal actions both at home and abroad.
Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:51
sutie
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'Staged' - For what possible purpose?
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:52
anne_666
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she'll need to get busy with morocco and algeria at the same time then ..........as they 're on the "unsafe" list for asylum seekers.
Then we'll need to have a look at our own in UK because we all know they'll be just as bad.
She's already tried to get the three countries classified as safe but the Bundesrat refused last month. The Greens objected to the proposal!

Indeed but it's worse - each EU member decides which countries it regards as "safe".

so alongside the 3 I mentioned you have the likes of Albania , Montenegro and Kosovo who still have not been classed as safe by Germany........... that's before they even start to drill down to individual screening.

only once those countries are deemed "safe" can they fast-tracked home. They're still arguing about that.
It's another EU farce that they don't have a common policy on safe countries. Didn't Germany classify the three you mention as safe last year?

Thank you

I really must get cracking now . I have 32 bags of clothing to sort and food to sort and see what else is needed for the homeless then run to the shops for last moment bargain so can get double for my money and really give them a lovely Christmas and here I am arguing on the WWW about things that dont matter and not doing what does matter a lot to me.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and yours
Thank you and the same to you.
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Old 23-12-2016, 17:55
too_much_coffee
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I often see this one but do you honestly believe that he would split on his 'brothers'?
Yes, I do because most of these ISIS recruits are easily influenced - hence their willingness to get brainwashed by a death cult. Once they are isolated from their handlers they would most likely sing like canaries in an effort to save themselves. That's why those who instruct them to carry out such atrocities want them to die in the terror attacks too. A captured ISIS terrorist presents them with a potential problem.

Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.
Exactly. Amri came to Europe before there was even an indication of the Arab Spring and the uprisings that followed, the catalyst for most of the refugees. He was an economic migrant and petty criminal who wanted to escape a Tunisian prison sentence.
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:12
flashfiction
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Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.

someone else also asked - why target Germany and why now? Because ISIS said they would.

dec 2015- it joined the coalition fight against ISIS - yes, non combat role in Syria, but still spent many Euros on this.

a few months later ISIS published a new target list with Germany on it, they even added photos of German targets, landmarks, soft targets etc.

naturally, there are other reasons too , no answer's ever that simple

ETA - re post above - we can't neatly conflate Amir's personal impulses in 2011 with an evolving ISIS strategy. as of 2016
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:36
mal2pool
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next time make sure they are deported immediately if there application is denied
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:39
francie
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next time make sure they are deported immediately if there application is denied
Don't hold your breath mal.
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:40
anne_666
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Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.
Farage is a disingenuous opportunist ass, but Germany are involved in both and IS threatened retaliation on all involved countries.

next time make sure they are deported immediately if there application is denied
Immediately is impossible. Their own country has to agree to take them back first and the same as any country, if they don't have a passport or any valid ID they won't consider an application until their identity is proved.
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:48
duckylucky
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next time make sure they are deported immediately if there application is denied
Or at very least held in detention until they decide who they are . Anyone with no papers must be detained IMO
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:49
francie
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Farage is a disingenuous opportunist ass, but Germany are involved in both and IS threatened retaliation on all involved countries.



Immediately is impossible. Their own country has to agree to take them back first and the same as any country, if they don't have a passport or any valid ID they won't consider an application until their identity is proved.
They shouldn't have a say in it if that's their country of origin, that's where they should be returned to - no ifs no buts.
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Old 23-12-2016, 18:51
francie
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Or at very least held in detention until they decide who they are . Anyone with no papers must be detained IMO
Any genuine refugee would gladly take anywhere to wait if it's safe. Don't like it? then return to where you came from.
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Old 23-12-2016, 19:08
Brandy211
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Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.
I was said he was in both countries illegally. He travelled without papers & used various names & nationalities.

It was up to those countries to deport him.

The fact that he could travel around Europe with no passport or papers is ridiculous.
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Old 23-12-2016, 19:28
Eurostar
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I was said he was in both countries illegally. He travelled without papers & used various names & nationalities.

It was up to those countries to deport him.

The fact that he could travel around Europe with no passport or papers is ridiculous.
That's more of a general issue surrounding issues of deportation laws for non EU criminals. I notice Merkel is saying today that the laws need to be toughened up and much more rigourously and speedily enforced. The borders are not necessarily the problem, but there needs to be much stronger enforcement of laws against anyone who has no right to be in Europe (eg. convicted criminals).
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Old 23-12-2016, 20:34
flashfiction
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Amri had been in Europe for five years and had already been in jail in Italy, therefore his criminality and terrorism had nothing to do with Merkel's refugee policies.

Also, Germany are not even involved militarily in the Middle East or North Africa, making Farage's claims on the issue rather spurious.
whilst your earlier post ^ has largely been answered, I'm not following this next one either.

That's more of a general issue surrounding issues of deportation laws for non EU criminals. I notice Merkel is saying today that the laws need to be toughened up and much more rigourously and speedily enforced. The borders are not necessarily the problem, but there needs to be much stronger enforcement of laws against anyone who has no right to be in Europe (eg. convicted criminals).
Did you read how many asylum seekers there are in Germany who had no papers? If they have no papers how do the authorities gain info about their criminal history?

You also refer to "anyone who has no right to be in Europe " - how will they distinguish economic migrants without access to true identities?

As for "borders aren't the problem" - even the Guardian seem to accept that due to the current terror risks, they may actually be a big problem. ( As also demonstrated post-Paris, Brussels ....)
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Old 23-12-2016, 21:07
Eurostar
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whilst your earlier post ^ has largely been answered, I'm not following this next one either.



Did you read how many asylum seekers there are in Germany who had no papers? If they have no papers how do the authorities gain info about their criminal history?

You also refer to "anyone who has no right to be in Europe " - how will they distinguish economic migrants without access to true identities?

As for "borders aren't the problem" - even the Guardian seem to accept that due to the current terror risks, they may actually be a big problem. ( As also demonstrated post-Paris, Brussels ....)
Amri had served time in an Italian prison ie. another EU country. There's no way someone like that should even be eligible to make an asylum application and he should have been deported before now.

Introducing hard borders and customs posts throughout the EU just in order to deter a handful of potential terrorists from moving from country to country (which might not even work) could be a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water. By all means there should be rigid enforcement at the external borders but stopping and questioning every single person who wants to travel from France to Belgium or Holland to Germany would be a very drastic step.
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Old 23-12-2016, 21:26
Alrightmate
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Since the death of the attacker Merkel has said "Her government's main priority was to protect German citizens, she told journalists, adding that this case had raised "many questions".

"Further changes to our laws and regulations will have to be made," Mrs Merkel said at a news conference."

I think the last paragraph is an understatement.
The devil is in the details so I'd like to see what she means by these changes to Germany's laws and regulations.
I don't doubt that changes will be made, but so far many of the changes which have already been made have been punitive measures against anyone who is critical of the German government's immigration policies.
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Old 23-12-2016, 21:30
blueblade
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Thank you

I really must get cracking now . I have 32 bags of clothing to sort and food to sort and see what else is needed for the homeless then run to the shops for last moment bargain so can get double for my money and really give them a lovely Christmas and here I am arguing on the WWW about things that dont matter and not doing what does matter a lot to me.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to you and yours
Of course, getting those last minute pressies is way more important than the death of 12 innocent people.

Happy Christmas
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Old 23-12-2016, 21:37
Alrightmate
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Seeking asylum from Tunisia? Turned out to be a terrorist who murdered..well I never...
An expected result of many poor EU policies.
Merkels hug a 'refugee' policy is just ridiculous.
Germany showing again how to destroy Europe and its people.
Why are Germany always on the wrong side of history? and even more worrying was we following them this time?
One day in the future these current lot in charge will all be put on trial for their outrageously irresponsible and criminal actions both at home and abroad.
Right now the German people are incredibly compliant. Too much guilt for something from their past which wasn't the fault of modern day Germans. So easy to manipulate them to accept the unacceptable by telling them that they are a good person if they just go along with what Merkel tells them.
It's like they've gone too far the other way now. Merkel will surely get re-elected because the German people mean well and truly believe that it's the right thing to do.
But if they carry on offering flowers to immigrants then I can see a point somewhere in the near future where they may react badly and start to go right back the opposite way again. Probably in about 10 years time I reckon.
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