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A truck has ploughed into a Christmas market in Berlin.
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Penny Crayon
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by MargMck:
“I'm not sure it's prejudiced to condemn religious fanatics who want to mow down and pulp everyone from babies in pushchairs to grannies. There wouldn't be any 'fuelling' if Islamic nutters weren't out and about regularly doing their thing.

If it is a Muslim terrorist attack (your words) it will go on an ever-growing list of such atrocities inflicted on people, including other Muslims, out and about peacefully enjoying themselves.

Anyway, terrible pictures of that lorry with bits of Christmas tree and decorations tangled on its radiator and broken windscreen.”

Yep ............absolutely dreadful.

The sad and terrible thing is it could happen anywhere at any time - SHOCKING!

As someone up there ^^ said - they're not into showing their sympathy etc. on the internet and I agree it's all a bit hollow but - my heart goes out to the families of the dead and injured.
Penny Crayon
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by James_Orton:
“religion of peace strikes again ”

No - murdering, fanatical nut jobs strike again!
Brandy211
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by WhatJoeThinks:
“Didn't they say they suspected that it was deliberate? Of course, they can't possibly know until they find out, which basically means asking the driver.

Of course the news should be reported. I never suggested otherwise. What I said is that most news outlets have a vested interest in jumping to conclusions. That is a fact, isn't it?

What I also suggested is that we ought to wait before making assumptions, but apparently that's a ludicrous suggestion.”

What is being reported is what German police, who are at the scene are telling the media. "From our investigation the attack was deliberate."
"The lorry mounted the pavement".

Witness at the scene: It was deliberate. Truck was going along the pavement in the middle of the market, at 40 miles an hour, knocking down stalls, going through people...There was no way it could have come off the road, it wasn't an accident.

Another witness: Our hotel is on lockdown. I'm on the 15th floor of hotel and have a very clear view of whats going on. Bodies are being taken away. He went straight into the market where its the busiest.


People will come to their own conclusions from what the police, witness and media are saying...
David_Herfrel
19-12-2016
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUNeUueUAAACsP5.jpg:large
ianradioian
19-12-2016
Therecare millions of lorries and buses in the World. The only thing that would stop them in their tracks if one was hijacked or stolen, is crash8ng into another vehicle the same weight, or as series of iron bollards, or something.. A 20 or 44 ton lorry will wipe out all in front of it . A normal car or empty Transit van is about 1 1/2 tons or so.
occy
19-12-2016
Can't understand how these markets are not secure with crowds of people for safety after what happened a few years ago with a truck.
rfonzo
19-12-2016
A piece of horrendous news, my condolences to the people at the Christmas Market and indeed the the people of Germany.
WhatJoeThinks
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Brandy211:
“What is being reported is what German police, who are at the scene are telling the media. "From our investigation the attack was deliberate."
"The lorry mounted the pavement".

Witness at the scene: It was deliberate. Truck was going along the pavement at 40 miles an hour, knocking down stalls...”

The investigation that's been ongoing for less than an hour? What's their evidence?

Also, that witness has no idea why it happened, only what happened.
Eurostar
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by stargazer61:
“Depends on how a vehicle crashes surely. It appears that the passenger in the vehicle did die in the crash”

It's very unusual for a perpetrator to survive a terrorist incident like this, they normally stage it in a way that ensures they die in the attack ie. provoke the police by opening fire on them or deliberately run into a hail of bullets at some point after the attack.
Inspiration
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by occy:
“Can't understand how these markets are not secure with crowds of people for safety after what happened a few years ago with a truck.”

What are you expecting them to do? Close down all of the roads and erect huge barriers around them? Have you been to a big Christmas Market?
Blairdennon
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Penny Crayon:
“No - murdering, fanatical nut jobs strike again!”

What are they fanatical about?
ianradioian
19-12-2016
It would mean building up high kerbs everywhere, and literally millions of steel deep-set bollards to make all these areas safe in the West.
All that wouldnt stop a suicide killer driving a 44 ton lorry at speed into a coach, or bus, or up the kerb of a side street into a school gates etc..

Its hopeless. These bastards walk amongst us.
ikarus280
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by James_Orton:
“religion of peace strikes again ”

Considering that the lorry has a Polish number plate, I assume you are referring to Catholicisim.
Les Corker
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by occy:
“Can't understand how these markets are not secure with crowds of people for safety after what happened a few years ago with a truck.”

it was this year....
Inspiration
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“It's very unusual for a perpetrator to survive a terrorist incident like this, they normally stage it in a way that ensures they die in the attack ie. provoke the police by opening fire on them or deliberately run into a hail of bullets at some point after the attack.”

I suppose the issue with this location is the police presence would have been minimal if any at all. With Nice they had police there already who were chasing the truck and already shooting at it. Here the truck probably came to a halt and nothing was really there to take him on.
stargazer61
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by occy:
“Can't understand how these markets are not secure with crowds of people for safety after what happened a few years ago with a truck.”

How do you secure such a huge area? Ban all trucks for, say, 1 mile around for the week the market is on? Check all trucks entering a prescribed area and thus bring a city centre to a standstill, delaying deliveries to shops, restaurants, businesses, etc.? And if the driver realises that their intended target is too difficult, what is to stop them from aiming their truck at a railway or bus station, at a hospital, a school, or any other public building. It is almost impossible to secure every area in a town or city.
Grafenwalder
19-12-2016
Police have arrested the truck driver. Co-driver is one of the dead.
francie
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by ianradioian:
“It would mean building up high kerbs everywhere, and literally millions of steel deep-set bollards to make all these areas safe in the West.
All that wouldnt stop a suicide killer driving a 44 ton lorry at speed into a coach, or bus, or up the kerb of a side street into a school gates etc..

Its hopeless. These bastards walk amongst us.”

Tend to agree. These murderers are so hell bent on martyrdom and taking as many innocents with them I doubt there is a deterrent.
Cheetah666
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by ikarus280:
“Considering that the lorry has a Polish number plate, I assume you are referring to Catholicisim.”

And are we to assume that this devoutly Catholic lorry drove itself into the crowd?
lemonbun
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by ikarus280:
“Considering that the lorry has a Polish number plate, I assume you are referring to Catholicisim.”

There is a suggestion that the lorry was hijacked.
stargazer61
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by ikarus280:
“Considering that the lorry has a Polish number plate, I assume you are referring to Catholicisim.”

The number plates on the lorry are immaterial
Eurostar
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Inspiration:
“I suppose the issue with this location is the police presence would have been minimal if any at all. With Nice they had police there already who were chasing the truck and already shooting at it. Here the truck probably came to a halt and nothing was really there to take him on.”

Indeed, but my point would be that Islamist terrorists normally launch an attack with the inttention of dying and it's nearly unheard of them for them to be taken alive. They will resist arrest and do everything to try and provoke the police into shooting them dead.
razorback Tony
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by blueblade:
“Truck had Polish number plates.”


The fact that the prefix GDA signifies that the truck was registered in Gdansk, Poland, approximately 500 klms. from Berlin means very little.
I suspect that when the dust settles, the driver will be unlikely to have a name like Krysczinski, or Stakowski.
There is very little that the authorities can do to combat this kind of terrorist attack, (if as seems likely it IS that), other than real super dooper intelligence.
Inspiration
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“Indeed, but my point would be that Islamist terrorists normally launch an attack with the inttention of dying and it's nearly unheard of them for them to be taken alive. They will resist arrest and do everything to try and provoke the police into shooting them dead.”

Yes true.

Edit: Sky now suggesting there may be doubt the arrest IS the suspect.

Sky seem to be jumping to conclusions suggesting the second person in the truck was also an attacker. Could be the original truck driver for all they know.

And interestingly Sky have seemingly run out of things to talk about and cut away to other news. I guess it's understandable. They were in full speculation mode.
LostFool
19-12-2016
Originally Posted by Inspiration:
“What are you expecting them to do? Close down all of the roads and erect huge barriers around them? Have you been to a big Christmas Market?”

Even if you could protect markets there would always be other soft targets. There would be nothing to stop a lorry driver causing a deliberate pile-up on a motorway.
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