No, I am waiting for convincing evidence to justify your claim. Atter 20 plus pages I still haven't seen any.

I don't know when feelings became evidence for any claims made in a debate. As the saying goes, "feels over reals".

I think some people keep making the mistaken assumption that I am a fan of Farage simply because I don't agree with their (some might say "bigoted") opinions of him.

As I posted earlier, what some people feel about him isn't going to convince anyone who doesn't feel the same way and would like some evidence. Threads like this one become echo chambers for those that feel his is like something from 1930's Germany, all saying that he is somehow evil, but never really able to explain why.

I think much of the blame for the climate of political hate is engineered by those who oppose Farage. If Farage says that immigration should be controlled it is reported as Farage wants to stop all immigration. If Farage says that freedom of movement is bad for British society it is reported as Farage is a racist who wants to remove all immigrants.
Perhaps if 'the left' in general reported what is said as opposed to what they like to think is being meant then that would go a long way to reducing any climate of political hate. I will however not hold my breath.

I know, you know and we all know that it's far more than that. It's Christmas Eve and I can't be arsed to trawl through some of the hate filled bilge that he's spouted about rapists, terrorists, Aids victims abusing our NHS and the list goes on and on and on.

We all know he does it to wind up those who are all too eager to be wound up and it also frightens people who can't be bothered or are unable to see another side - to know that he's talking about a teeny minority.

You go on deluding yourself - mark my words there'll come a day when a lot of Farage groupies will rue the day they heard his name. Be careful what you wish for folks - Farage and Trumps are ignorant, spiteful and dangerous men.

Perhaps Farage shouldn't copy Nazi propaganda, should stop being crass (no bullets comment) and stop telling lies (£350 million etc), then he might be respected by those who oppose him.

Anyway, Merry Xmas and I'll try to forget about politics for a few days.

You do not have to trawl through anything one little example should be at your fingertips most especially if it is hate filled bilge. Th eAIDS victims abusing the NHS is a perfect example of what is meant. He asked the question of the others in the debate how they felt about health tourism and gave the ability to obtain immediate, expensive anti viral treatment as an example of health tourism. No one actually answered the question. Whether one likes the question or not it does deserve an answer.

Well it seems as regards all of the above, and their relative merits or demerits was well after most of the problems he was meant to have caused. He was not resposible for the 350 million that was an official Leave campaign.

Anyway Merry Christmas will most certainly do the same.

The '£350 million' was incorrect. The true figure is more like £700 million if the cost of housing EU immigrants, educating their children and providing free health care. Also, the cost of paying benefits to British workers displaced in the work place or forced into unfair zero hours by big business because of competition for jobs.

It is a perfect example of Farage deliberately misrepresenting the situation to shock and incite. As Farage knew AIDS still carries stigma and knew there is no evidence there is a problem with AIDS victims travelling to the UK for free treatment. As after he previously raised the issue it was pointed out that the foreign born people seeking treatment on the NHS had typically been living in the UK for years before seeking treatment. They either were not HIV positive when they entered the UK years before or were unaware they were and typically only sought treatment when they started suffering systems. That is a far cry from Farage's portrayal of the situation as foreigners getting AIDS and travelling to the UK to exploit the NHS.

Using AIDS as a example of health tourism is also deliberately misleading as it is one of the few conditions that anyone in the UK gets free treatment for on the grounds of risk to public health.

Does that that sort of bizzare response to a perfect valid point pass for some kind of coup de gras in your way of thinking?

If so, you're completely deluding yourself. It's nothing of the sort. It is what it is. Total nonsense.

Then if I recall what Farage said was one can enter the UK and immediately access expensive treatment for AIDS which was the point. IT was also stated that a high percentage were foreign born which is a fact. The details of how, why, where and when may be unknown but with approx 12% foreign born in the UK and apparently over 50% foreign born receiving treatment it does indicate a disparity that does require an explanation. However people would rather focus on denigrating Farage and nit picking at his stats instead of saying yes there is a problem can we solve it most especially since many cancer patients are refused some drugs on grounds of cost. It is not evidence of health tourism it is an indication of health tourism that people would much rather ignore primarily because they hate Farage.

If you were to believe the post you were responding to, you might think that foreigners never came over here with AIDS or even HIV, it only developed later. That isn't true and there are those who know or are suspicious, because of their lifestyle, that they are or will become infected. One of the highest incidences of AIDS in the UK is among heterosexual Africans and I've known of a group of a dozen or so turning up from Africa.

You're right to clarify that Farage's concern was people could come to this country and immediately receive very expensive treatment which for serious non-AIDS diseases would be denied to British people.

No need to be careful what you wish for, love, because the opposite of what you want keeps happening. Doesn't it.

And, whether you like it or not, President Trump is but a few months away. What you really want to worry about though, is what Mr Farage has up his sleeve. You think he just gave up the UKIP leader's job because he's had enough? Ha ha!

Merry Christmas! And no amount of silly links or can change the way things are going.

It really doesn't help if you don't even know the bus was nothing to do with Farage, it's been said often enough over the last 6 months!

Judging by that lot you're the one with the hate for Farage.
Unless you can back it up with actual examples, not just your prejudices.

Nah, depending on how the wind's blowing he's either the most evil man in the universe or a pathetic little opportunist who has zero influence. These poor little snowflakes do get awfully confused.

As long as they've got someone to shout 'Racist!' at, they're happy enough. Seems to be all they need. Small things...

Farage was presenting it as foreigners who know they have AIDS come to the UK to get free healthcare. Immigrants abusing the NHS through healthcare tourism.

The reality is they come to the UK and years latter start suffering symptoms get diagnosed and receive treatment. This is indicative of there not being AIDS healthcare tourism.

People coming to the UK from countries where AIDS is far more prevalent are more likely to have AIDS than people born in the UK. That I would have thought was a statement of the obvious not needing to be explained. It does not however indicate they knew they had AIDS when they came to the UK as they do not seek treatment until years latter when they get symptoms and are diagnosed.

Also the prevalence of AIDS amongst immigrant populations in the UK is lower than the prevalence in populations of the countries they are from. So immigrants from abroad do not disproportionately have AIDS in comparison to the population of the country they came from, in fact the opposite is true. This is indicative of there not being AIDS healthcare tourism.

And currently over 50% of those being diagnosed with AIDS were born in the UK.


Farage gets denigrated because he claimed there is a huge problem of immigrants abusing the NHS through healthcare tourism using AIDS treatment as his example. When he was well aware that AIDS treatment is one of the few treatments provided to anyone in the UK on public health grounds, and was well aware that there is no evidence of AiDS healthcare tourism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7102831.html
I was talking about QT 9th June, not the bus. I thought it would help if you knew that.

The one little example is sadly lacking, but the way some people go on there go on there are a myriad reasons to condemn him (and yet no example given). I don't agree with Farage politically, I just don't believe he is the evil Satan some people say he is.

Then try being clear in the first place? Or having a go all the other nasty Leavers perhaps as well. There were others out saying all sorts of stuff as well as your bogey man. It just seems people are scared of him and hang onto his every word or something.

It's a thread about Farage, so have a wonderful Xmas

What a truly dreadful guy that Brendan Cox is going around trying to spread Hope not Hate - despicable really isn't it?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/...s-message.html

Yeah, what we need are more people who are suddenly self proclaimed experts because they have suffered a personal tradegy. Leah Betts' dad became an expert overnight in the harm of drugs cause when it wasn't the drug that killed her, we should always follow personal experience rather than apply rational thought.

Our Nige on LBC with Nick Ferrari at 1 pm, excellent