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Theresa May gets a roasting
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mungobrush
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by digitalspyfan1:
“I think Trump and May represent a new style of political leadership. I think the technical term for it is:

"Making-it-up-as-you-go along!'

You don't need many academic skills. In fact you don't need ANY skills cos you er.. just make it up as you go along. ”

Quite clearly you know nothing about negotiations

If you did you would know that preparations are conducted in absolute secrecy
You would have items that are non negotiable
Items that could be negotiated and items that are of no consequence but they could be useful to the other parties.

Both sides will be preparing themselves equally
Why aren't you screaming out for the EU's negotiating positions?

If you are expecting both sides to publish their negotiating strategies and fall back positions then I'm glad that Theresa May is conducting them and not you.
Forza Ferrari
20-12-2016
So what came out of that was two things. May wants to keep parliament in the dark. It is entirely likely that the parliaments in EU member states will have more information on the brexit negotiations than the british parliament. Then she doesn't want to give parliament a say in accepting the deal.

More concerning is what is said about the interim or implementation period. What was clear from the discussion is that the motivation behind such a period is to allow any financial institutions who have not run before the conclusion of negotiations to do so after before they are caught in the trap.

These two things are an awful combination. Details kept secrete, no chance of stopping the disaster but the financial institutions are closeted until they run out and leave us to our hell.
Soppyfan
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by zelda fan:
“She is atrocious, i can't believe she is so likely to win the next election. Such a low time in British politics.”

Agreed, I wouldn't be surprised there's a record low turnout in 2020.
Miasima Goria
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by skp20040:
“Firstly she cannot guarantee rights of EU citizens (which she does want to) if the EU does not reciprocate on British citizens which the EU have refused to confirm .

Secondly she doesn't need to say anything on the ROI or confirm their continued status and rights as the status of the Irish is separate to that of the EU ( as is that of UK citizens in the ROI) and was in place long before the EU, if you recall in the EU vote no EU citizens were entitled to vote but Maltese, Cypriot and Irish citizens residing in the UK were allowed to vote, the rights of the Irish, Maltese and Cypriots will continue as they whilst EU members have other pre-existing arrangements”

BIB May has said it will be discussed in talks with the EU so that is no longer correct.
howard h
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by i4u:
“Ah, she didn't let us down. It was used to skirt round her agreement with or non agreement with Davies that the UK Parliament would be as well informed as politicians on the continent about the negotiations.”

Will that be a £1000 brown leather skirt? At least mine are black, even if they're not a grand
Vast_Girth
20-12-2016
That was just embarrassing. She simply cannot answer a question.
Eurostar
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Vast_Girth:
“That was just embarrassing. She simply cannot answer a question.”

Not because she is inarticulate but because she was being deliberately evasive. That was probably the first time since she was elected that she has been put under pressure and repeatedly questioned on something : all she seemed to do was waffle in response.
skp20040
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by Miasima Goria:
“BIB May has said it will be discussed in talks with the EU so that is no longer correct.”

That will mean changing a law that has nothing to do with the EU and has existed since the 1920's.
maidinscotland
20-12-2016
Only one with a clue is Nicola
Nodger
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by maidinscotland:
“Only one with a clue is Nicola”

Hello Nicola, didn't know you posted here.
skp20040
20-12-2016
Originally Posted by maidinscotland:
“Only one with a clue is Nicola”

Really ?

http://www.businessinsider.in/nicola...w/56088708.cms

Nicola Sturgeon's Brexit adviser told us why her single market plans are 'politically, technically and legally' unviable
Miasima Goria
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by skp20040:
“That will mean changing a law that has nothing to do with the EU and has existed since the 1920's.”

You best tell Theresa May then that she is wrong and you are right:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...-may-1.2913456

Theresa May has declined to rule out a change in the status of Irish nationals living in Britain, suggesting the issue is part of a broader negotiation about the rights of EU citizens after Brexit. After Britain leaves the EU, it will be free to choose what rights to offer Irish citizens in the UK, including a continuation of the current arrangement under which they have most of the same rights as British citizens.

But in response to a question from Laurence Robertson, the Conservative chair of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, the prime minister appeared to link the issue to securing a reciprocal arrangement for UK citizens living in the EU after Brexit.

“The issue of the rights of citizens of the Republic of Ireland, as you say, is on a different and longstanding historical basis from other members of the European Union. Obviously I’ve been clear that I want to at an early stage look at how we deal with these issues of people from other countries within the European Union who are living within the UK in order to offer reassurance,” she said.

“I’ve been clear in relation to citizens of the EU as a whole that we want to ensure that we also see UK citizens living elsewhere being treated on a reciprocal basis.”
d'@ve
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Eurostar:
“Not because she is inarticulate but because she was being deliberately evasive. That was probably the first time since she was elected that she has been put under pressure and repeatedly questioned on something : all she seemed to do was waffle in response.”

She's merely being economical with the truth. Who'd ever have thought that a British PM's role model would be a former Cabinet Secretary.

And to think that I supported her annointment at the time. Mind you, when you consider the alternatives, it just makes you wince. What a fine mess that Cameron fellow has gotten us into.
Eurostar
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by d'@ve:
“She's merely being economical with the truth. Who'd ever have thought that a British PM's role model would be a former Cabinet Secretary.

And to think that I supported her annointment at the time. Mind you, when you consider the alternatives, it just makes you wince. What a fine mess that Cameron fellow has gotten us into.”

She was surprisingly unimpressive but part of the problem is she is getting an easy ride from the right wing press and is not being placed under any scrutiny. It's a strange situation, they almost have her down as a wartime PM who needs to be supported at all costs - substitute Brexit for 'wartime' and you get the drift.
Parker45
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by mungobrush:
“Quite clearly you know nothing about negotiations

If you did you would know that preparations are conducted in absolute secrecy
You would have items that are non negotiable
Items that could be negotiated and items that are of no consequence but they could be useful to the other parties.

Both sides will be preparing themselves equally
Why aren't you screaming out for the EU's negotiating positions?

If you are expecting both sides to publish their negotiating strategies and fall back positions then I'm glad that Theresa May is conducting them and not you.”

The only reason for the current secrecy is that the Cabinet have not been able to come to an agreement as to what they would like from Brexit. These will be political negotiations, not commercial ones, and don't require the level of secrecy you seem to think they do. Previous negotiations with the EU have always been transparent. Do you really think that once negotiations begin, we won't immediately know what the Government position will be? Even if Mrs May doesn't say much publicly, the other side certainly will.
trevgo
21-12-2016
May is going to sink into the quagmire very shortly. She knows it and is cacking her thousand pound slacks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/38386548

The CBI are calling for tariff free trade. Everyone is calling for tariff free trade. That won't be on offer without FOM, so there is a day of reckoning approaching. The fun and games haven't even started yet.

May and her 3 buffoons are going to be thrown onto the pyre of Brexit in the fullness of time.
Miasima Goria
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“May is going to sink into the quagmire very shortly. She knows it and is cacking her thousand pound slacks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/38386548

The CBI are calling for tariff free trade. Everyone is calling for tariff free trade. That won't be on offer without FOM, so there is a day of reckoning approaching. The fun and games haven't even started yet.

May and her 3 buffoons are going to be thrown onto the pyre of Brexit in the fullness of time.”

Tariff free trade isn't going to happen though, is it?There is too much animosity on both sides - though mainly the UK - for a deal to be done easily, if at all.

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/e...exit-1.2912876

The hard and soft versions of Brexit differ in their attitudes to immigration and the EU’s single market – but they also share one crucial similarity. They assume the EU and the UK will be able to agree an orderly separation.
In fact, there are strong grounds for believing that a well-managed divorce will prove unattainable and that there will instead be a train crash. The reasons for this are both procedural and political.
On the procedural level, the problem is that the negotiations are too complicated to complete in the allotted time. Britain and the EU will have to unpick and then reorder a legal, economic and trading relationship that has been knitted together over the course of more than 40 years. But the two sides will have just two years to achieve and ratify a deal after Britain triggers article 50 and gives formal notice that it intends to leave.
Mc256
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“Cooper is resurrecting her career.”

Maybe she should try Strictly then!
Nick1966
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by trevgo:
“May is going to sink into the quagmire very shortly. She knows it and is cacking her thousand pound slacks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/38386548

The CBI are calling for tariff free trade. Everyone is calling for tariff free trade. That won't be on offer without FOM, so there is a day of reckoning approaching. The fun and games haven't even started yet..”

Agreed.

Mrs May and her government are useless. They've provided me with no information whatsoever on Brexit options and consequences.

Single market: I think she'll take us out. Mrs May says no more European Court decisions. So that rules out participation in the Single Market. It also rules out single market participation via EFTA, as EFTA its own court to enforce single market rules.

Customs Union Dr Liam Fox's proposal of partial membership is either tricky or impossible. The WTO's Most Favoured Nation rules limit or rule out any preferential UK deals with the EU. The UK could follow Turkey's model, but that might need agreement and goodwill from the EU or WTO or both. My guess: we're stay in the Customs Union for the time being. Which brings us to..

The World Trade Organisation. Dr Fox is already working on the necessary UK trade schedules needed to WTO membership. He's copied them for the current EU schedules. Extracting Dr Fox's UK schedules from the EU can be done, but sorting out current quotas could be messy. And the EU will also have to update their own WTO schedules, too.

A free trade agreement with the EU. This will take time, which the UK government don't have. A FTA will need to be ratified by all 27 EU members including some regional parliaments. It will also need to be ratified by the UK parliament, too. Expect lobbying by UK business during negotiations.

Mrs May will need to explain all of this to all of us. She faces some painful choices.
allaorta
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Annsyre:
“Cooper is resurrecting her career.”

Well her husband has just resurrected his. Now chief choreographer at the Fame Academy.
allaorta
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Nick1966:
“Agreed.


Single market: I think she'll take us out. Mrs May says no more European Court decisions. So that rules out participation in the Single Market. It also rules out single market participation via EFTA, as EFTA its own court to enforce single market rules.Mrs May and her government are useless. They've provided me with no information whatsoever on Brexit options and consequences.


Customs Union Dr Liam Fox's proposal of partial membership is either tricky or impossible. The WTO's Most Favoured Nation rules limit or rule out any preferential UK deals with the EU. The UK could follow Turkey's model, but that might need agreement and goodwill from the EU or WTO or both. My guess: we're stay in the Customs Union for the time being. Which brings us to..

The World Trade Organisation. Dr Fox is already working on the necessary UK trade schedules needed to WTO membership. He's copied them for the current EU schedules. Extracting Dr Fox's UK schedules from the EU can be done, but sorting out current quotas could be messy. And the EU will also have to update their own WTO schedules, too.

A free trade agreement with the EU. This will take time, which the UK government don't have. A FTA will need to be ratified by all 27 EU members including some regional parliaments. It will also need to be ratified by the UK parliament, too. Expect lobbying by UK business during negotiations.

Mrs May will need to explain all of this to all of us. She faces some painful choices.”

Didn't ya know, there's only one course of action followed by success?
mungobrush
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Parker45:
“The only reason for the current secrecy is that the Cabinet have not been able to come to an agreement as to what they would like from Brexit. These will be political negotiations, not commercial ones, and don't require the level of secrecy you seem to think they do. Previous negotiations with the EU have always been transparent. Do you really think that once negotiations begin, we won't immediately know what the Government position will be? Even if Mrs May doesn't say much publicly, the other side certainly will.”

But Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet.
That's 3 months away

I just can't believe that some people here think that the government should publish its negotiation strategy so that it can be debated here by anonymous members on an entertainment forum

And so that the EU have plenty of time to prepare its rebuttals.

Why aren't these people screaming out for the EU's strategy to be published?
trevgo
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by mungobrush:
“Why aren't these people screaming out for the EU's strategy to be published?”

It has.

No free access to the single market without accepting FOM. No cherry picking.

Couldn't possibly be clearer. May & Co are either pretending to be deaf, or are actually deaf.
trevgo
21-12-2016
Originally Posted by Miasima Goria:
“Tariff free trade isn't going to happen though, is it?]”

No, it isn't - at least, not without a totally humiliating 180 degree turn by May + Co. There will be a short period of flying insults, followed by a binary choice. As May has nailed her flag solidly to the Europhobe's flagpost, then tariffs and economic disaster it will be.

The dimwits will be scratching their heads going "how did this happen when we buy all those BMWs?".
glasshalffull
21-12-2016
:

And this happened in public?
Did no-one call the police?
Was she a willing participant?
Was she so drunk there is doubt as to whether she was capable of giving informed consent?
Which football team was involved?
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