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Old 20-12-2016, 23:55
Rhumbatugger
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Because of being in bottom 2 the week before even if he didn't make any mistakes on Saturday I still think Danny wouldn't have won people didn't like him because of the so called previous dance experience claims.
Why would they not? They knew before surely?

And many other factors could have come into play. Danny's Salsa wasn't great, his AT was contempowaft so a bit marmite, and perhaps he just wasn't THAT popular.

Danny having dance experience was hardly some new shock.
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:03
hannah
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Why would they not? They knew before surely?

And many other factors could have come into play. Danny's Salsa wasn't great, his AT was contempowaft so a bit marmite, and perhaps he just wasn't THAT popular.

Danny having dance experience was hardly some new shock.
It comes downs to opinion I thought his Salsa and AS were great but I feel guilty that Danny was in the B2 semi final week because I didn't vote for him as I watching the other programme. And I know some people had problems voting online in the semi final and I have saw claims of dodgy voting in the final.

Since he was in the bottom 2 I have a sneaky feeling Danny was getting protected by the judges scores and wasn't as popular with public as people thought,.
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:04
Monaogg
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Because of being in bottom 2 the week before even if he didn't make any mistakes on Saturday I still think Danny wouldn't have won people didn't like him because of the so called previous dance experience claims.
Being in the bottom two assumes a lot of things.

I suspect many people who would vote for Danny on most weeks, voted for Claudia in the Semis as they felt she needed the support. I did and so did others. So where does this claim of "dislike" come from? People were getting their knickers in a knot over Danny's alleged experience before the semis. As this show does not have voting for who you want to leave, all you can say with any certainty over the semis, was that more people voted for Louise & Ore than Claudia & Danny.

Public vote could quite easily be: -

Louise
Claudia
Ore
Danny

With only a handful of votes separating each one.
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:16
hannah
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Being in the bottom two assumes a lot of things.

I suspect many people who would vote for Danny on most weeks, voted for Claudia in the Semis as they felt she needed the support. I did and so did others. So where does this claim of "dislike" come from? People were getting their knickers in a knot over Danny's alleged experience before the semis. As this show does not have voting for who you want to leave, all you can say with any certainty over the semis, was that more people voted for Louise & Ore than Claudia & Danny.

Public vote could quite easily be: -

Louise
Claudia
Ore
Danny

With only a handful of votes separating each one.
Also there were claims that people who wanted to vote for Claudia and Danny couldn't vote online
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:17
Rhumbatugger
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Also there were claims that people who wanted to vote for Claudia and Danny couldn't vote online
Lots of reasons then, not to do with people 'not liking Danny' because of his experience
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:18
shrinkingviolet
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Also there were claims that people who wanted to vote for Claudia and Danny couldn't vote online
By bitter conspiracy theorists who ignored the fact that people voting for other couples couldn't get through either to try and explain away why their faves weren't as popular as they believed they should be.

But yeah, I'm sure they fixed the online vote to only affect the couples that people liked and to aid the couples that they didn't. That sounds completely legit and likely.
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:19
Rhumbatugger
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By bitter conspiracy theorists who ignored the fact that people voting for other couples couldn't get through either to try and explain away why their faves weren't as popular as they believed they should be.

But yeah, I'm sure they fixed the online vote to only affect the couples that people liked and to aid the couples that they didn't. That sounds completely legit and likely.


Too true.
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Old 21-12-2016, 00:44
washboard
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I like a mix of abilities in the contestants.

I dislike references - from judges, producers etc - along the lines that 'the true spirit of Strictly' being about someone who has never danced before 'becoming a dancer'. That does make me wonder why they even sign up people who have had previous dance experience.

For me, 'the true spirit of Strictly' is about people learning to do something which is different from the skills and experiences they already have.

Successful sports people will already have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as part of the day job. Not to mention the experience of single-minded focus on training, including working through the pain barrier.

Successful TV personalities/presenters will also have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as they carry out the day job - as themselves. On the other hand, it can be difficult for actors to appear in a live performance as 'themselves'. Especially if they are 'being watched by millions!' rather than a theatre-full.

I enjoy watching people adapting their existing skills as well as learning new skills. Not just limited to dance! Ed Balls learning about characterisation, for example - though even that may have been built on years of putting on a persona to take part in debates.

I also enjoy watching people 'falling in love with dance' - which includes watching that love affair with dance developing. That can also happen with the contestants who have had previous dance experience. You can see their love of dance grow each week.

That 'true spirit of Strictly' can encompass a great many of the past contestants. Maybe not the Widdicombes and Dell'olios . But a great many of the others.

It would be a shame if it were to be restricted to one category - 'never danced before'.

However, if that's the official description of 'the true spirit of Strictly', the Beeb should stop signing up people who - because of their past - can never meet that definition.
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Old 21-12-2016, 01:32
Tissy
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None of them were as good as Ore that's why. The judges want in the main the best dancers to get the final. But it was part of Ore's story (its a reality show remember) that he is the non dancer who takes it to the ringers..

I am glad he was on the show this year as he produced the unpredictable element to snatch the glitterball away from the better dancer. I am still surprised he won.
I was surprised (and delighted) he won too, I was a floating voter with no favourite but I didn't see that result coming, mainly due to being in the dance off twice and reading too many negative comments on here regarding his tears and playing up to the cameras.
Thought the final would be close between Louise and Danny tbh.

Talking to friends and customers since the final, not one has said they wanted Danny to win Most said they loved Oti and admitted Danny was a great dancer but some thought he was too perfect, not just his dancing but his whole demeanour, to the point they found him boring.

Think I can see where they are coming from in a way, it's like everything he said and did was carefully scripted / staged. I also found their show dance to be rather aggressive
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Old 21-12-2016, 01:46
thenetworkbabe
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What Planet does Len live on with his comments about no Dance experience why did he not aim that comment at the Producers who hired the Celebs that had Dance experience.

In the next series they should not allow anyone on the show with experience and then will be no need for the sort of comment Len came out with.
impossible. Actors now nearly all go on 3 year degree courses that involve dance - and need to have had years of training, and experience, to get in to the colleges. That would rule out half the contestants. Singers tend to train, at the level below, at the same stage schools at 11 too. Presenters are often failed actors.

That would still leave all the people who did dance at school or a club, or had a boy or girl friend, who taught them. Defining training would be difficult - if it was ok at 1 0 , but not 11.

Sportspeople are now more professional, tied to lottery funding, and less free. The stars of 2016 are mostly going on to 2020. They also now make more money at the top than Strictly can match. You won't get a Laura kenny ,or a Jade jones, or a Mo Farah for a long time.

That doesn't leave much .

Their selection problem is getting worse too. They don't offer enough money for many possible contestants. The older contestants are usually uncompetitive. The people who would be really good left, mostly did Dancing on Ice, and they seem not to want to use them. They won't be getting Emma Watson or Maisie Williams - who can both dance well, for a few decades either
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Old 21-12-2016, 07:03
Gill P
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Think I can see where they are coming from in a way, it's like everything he said and did was carefully scripted / staged.
It just shows how different people's perspective can be. I didn't find Danny was at all scripted. He just spoke as he found the situation at the time.

Slightly changing the subject, I think that once Kevin was in the final, he sort of gave up! I don't know why - perhaps he was disheartened when the judges chose the Flashdance.
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Old 21-12-2016, 07:09
londongirlGre
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It just shows how different people's perspective can be. I didn't find Danny was at all scripted. He just spoke as he found the situation at the time.

Slightly changing the subject, I think that once Kevin was in the final, he sort of gave up! I don't know why - perhaps he was disheartened when the judges chose the Flashdance.
I agree. For me, Danny came across as a lovely young man.
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Old 21-12-2016, 07:37
Tissy
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I think this years celebs were one of the best group of Celebs we've had and didn't dislike any of them - they were all lovely .
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Old 21-12-2016, 07:54
nyannie
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I like a mix of abilities in the contestants.

I dislike references - from judges, producers etc - along the lines that 'the true spirit of Strictly' being about someone who has never danced before 'becoming a dancer'. That does make me wonder why they even sign up people who have had previous dance experience.

For me, 'the true spirit of Strictly' is about people learning to do something which is different from the skills and experiences they already have.

Successful sports people will already have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as part of the day job. Not to mention the experience of single-minded focus on training, including working through the pain barrier.

Successful TV personalities/presenters will also have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as they carry out the day job - as themselves. On the other hand, it can be difficult for actors to appear in a live performance as 'themselves'. Especially if they are 'being watched by millions!' rather than a theatre-full.

I enjoy watching people adapting their existing skills as well as learning new skills. Not just limited to dance! Ed Balls learning about characterisation, for example - though even that may have been built on years of putting on a persona to take part in debates.

I also enjoy watching people 'falling in love with dance' - which includes watching that love affair with dance developing. That can also happen with the contestants who have had previous dance experience. You can see their love of dance grow each week.

That 'true spirit of Strictly' can encompass a great many of the past contestants. Maybe not the Widdicombes and Dell'olios . But a great many of the others.

It would be a shame if it were to be restricted to one category - 'never danced before'.

However, if that's the official description of 'the true spirit of Strictly', the Beeb should stop signing up people who - because of their past - can never meet that definition.

Really good and interesting post. Almost everyone in the entertainment industry - singers, actors, etc have been to stage school or taken movement classes of some kind and of course have performance experience as do presenters and sportsmen.

That leaves reality wannabes, celebrity chefs and politicians - not a wide category which would be boring to the extreme. I do think though that judges should stop playing favourites and saying that this person has no dance experience. So what.

However, I do think the focus should be on DANCE and not gimmicks - after all the show is called ' STRICTY COME DANCING. Think there are too many 'specials' and the awful VTS should stop!
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Old 21-12-2016, 08:05
CravenHaven
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Slightly changing the subject, I think that once Kevin was in the final, he sort of gave up! I don't know why - perhaps he was disheartened when the judges chose the Flashdance.
what a feeling
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Old 21-12-2016, 08:05
fridgesoup
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I like a mix of abilities in the contestants.

I dislike references - from judges, producers etc - along the lines that 'the true spirit of Strictly' being about someone who has never danced before 'becoming a dancer'. That does make me wonder why they even sign up people who have had previous dance experience.

For me, 'the true spirit of Strictly' is about people learning to do something which is different from the skills and experiences they already have.

Successful sports people will already have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as part of the day job. Not to mention the experience of single-minded focus on training, including working through the pain barrier.

Successful TV personalities/presenters will also have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as they carry out the day job - as themselves. On the other hand, it can be difficult for actors to appear in a live performance as 'themselves'. Especially if they are 'being watched by millions!' rather than a theatre-full.

I enjoy watching people adapting their existing skills as well as learning new skills. Not just limited to dance! Ed Balls learning about characterisation, for example - though even that may have been built on years of putting on a persona to take part in debates.

I also enjoy watching people 'falling in love with dance' - which includes watching that love affair with dance developing. That can also happen with the contestants who have had previous dance experience. You can see their love of dance grow each week.

That 'true spirit of Strictly' can encompass a great many of the past contestants. Maybe not the Widdicombes and Dell'olios . But a great many of the others.

It would be a shame if it were to be restricted to one category - 'never danced before'.

However, if that's the official description of 'the true spirit of Strictly', the Beeb should stop signing up people who - because of their past - can never meet that definition.
Well said!

The show needs all sorts of people to bring all kinds of experience with them. I don't want to watch 15 ringers or 15 complete beginners. The audience can choose for themselves whether to prefer the dance trained or the dance duffers, but the show should be valuing them all for what they each bring.

Banging on about one person being "as good as a professional dancer" whilst saying another "is what Strictly is all about" is setting them up. If someone is invited onto the show, and they play their part and enter 'into the spirit of Strictly" then they deserve to be treated with some fairness and decency.
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Old 21-12-2016, 08:25
londongirlGre
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Well said!

The show needs all sorts of people to bring all kinds of experience with them. I don't want to watch 15 ringers or 15 complete beginners. The audience can choose for themselves whether to prefer the dance trained or the dance duffers, but the show should be valuing them all for what they each bring.

Banging on about one person being "as good as a professional dancer" whilst saying another "is what Strictly is all about" is setting them up. If someone is invited onto the show, and they play their part and enter 'into the spirit of Strictly" then they deserve to be treated with some fairness and decency.
Agreed.
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Old 21-12-2016, 08:30
Monaogg
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I like a mix of abilities in the contestants.

I dislike references - from judges, producers etc - along the lines that 'the true spirit of Strictly' being about someone who has never danced before 'becoming a dancer'. That does make me wonder why they even sign up people who have had previous dance experience.

For me, 'the true spirit of Strictly' is about people learning to do something which is different from the skills and experiences they already have.

Successful sports people will already have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as part of the day job. Not to mention the experience of single-minded focus on training, including working through the pain barrier.

Successful TV personalities/presenters will also have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as they carry out the day job - as themselves. On the other hand, it can be difficult for actors to appear in a live performance as 'themselves'. Especially if they are 'being watched by millions!' rather than a theatre-full.

I enjoy watching people adapting their existing skills as well as learning new skills. Not just limited to dance! Ed Balls learning about characterisation, for example - though even that may have been built on years of putting on a persona to take part in debates.

I also enjoy watching people 'falling in love with dance' - which includes watching that love affair with dance developing. That can also happen with the contestants who have had previous dance experience. You can see their love of dance grow each week.

That 'true spirit of Strictly' can encompass a great many of the past contestants. Maybe not the Widdicombes and Dell'olios . But a great many of the others.

It would be a shame if it were to be restricted to one category - 'never danced before'.

However, if that's the official description of 'the true spirit of Strictly', the Beeb should stop signing up people who - because of their past - can never meet that definition.
All of this.

Well said!

The show needs all sorts of people to bring all kinds of experience with them. I don't want to watch 15 ringers or 15 complete beginners. The audience can choose for themselves whether to prefer the dance trained or the dance duffers, but the show should be valuing them all for what they each bring.

Banging on about one person being "as good as a professional dancer" whilst saying another "is what Strictly is all about" is setting them up. If someone is invited onto the show, and they play their part and enter 'into the spirit of Strictly" then they deserve to be treated with some fairness and decency.
And this.
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Old 21-12-2016, 08:57
coppertop1
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I like a mix of abilities in the contestants.

I dislike references - from judges, producers etc - along the lines that 'the true spirit of Strictly' being about someone who has never danced before 'becoming a dancer'. That does make me wonder why they even sign up people who have had previous dance experience.

For me, 'the true spirit of Strictly' is about people learning to do something which is different from the skills and experiences they already have.

Successful sports people will already have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as part of the day job. Not to mention the experience of single-minded focus on training, including working through the pain barrier.

Successful TV personalities/presenters will also have experience of 'being watched by millions!' as they carry out the day job - as themselves. On the other hand, it can be difficult for actors to appear in a live performance as 'themselves'. Especially if they are 'being watched by millions!' rather than a theatre-full.

I enjoy watching people adapting their existing skills as well as learning new skills. Not just limited to dance! Ed Balls learning about characterisation, for example - though even that may have been built on years of putting on a persona to take part in debates.

I also enjoy watching people 'falling in love with dance' - which includes watching that love affair with dance developing. That can also happen with the contestants who have had previous dance experience. You can see their love of dance grow each week.

That 'true spirit of Strictly' can encompass a great many of the past contestants. Maybe not the Widdicombes and Dell'olios . But a great many of the others.

It would be a shame if it were to be restricted to one category - 'never danced before'.

However, if that's the official description of 'the true spirit of Strictly', the Beeb should stop signing up people who - because of their past - can never meet that definition.

Very sensible, but careful now otherwise you will be labelled as a bitter conspiracy theorist.

There is very little room for actual sense on here, I would have preferred a Danny win, but Ore didn't make mistakes in the final and Danny did.

However, I really did feel Len's comment was unfair to both Loiuse and Danny, over something neither of them could change and last year the one Len championed, in fact was extremely cross that she didn't win, was Kellie.

That's right Kellie one of the most experienced dancers to do the show. No problems there with experience, whereas Katie, who admittedly was out classed by the others, was a non dancers who was practically told off in the final for daring to be there amongst the best experienced dancers.
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Old 21-12-2016, 09:27
calamity
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They didn't all Len said is that is that Ore reached a high level with no dance experience which he gave credit for. The public at home could have ignored him if they wished.
True but a lot of people are followers and the judges did mention quite a few times about how great one dancer was who had no experience and this I think sways a lot of people and they know it. The winner was good, liked his moves but he wasnt a patch on Danny and they knew that too.
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Old 21-12-2016, 09:29
collaw
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It is the mixture of talent, experience that gives the show it's appeal , I would prefer 12 Danny's but I can see the show would not be as popular shame but the truth
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Old 21-12-2016, 09:39
aggs
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Very sensible, but careful now otherwise you will be labelled as a bitter conspiracy theorist.

There is very little room for actual sense on here, I would have preferred a Danny win, but Ore didn't make mistakes in the final and Danny did.

However, I really did feel Len's comment was unfair to both Loiuse and Danny, over something neither of them could change and last year the one Len championed, in fact was extremely cross that she didn't win, was Kellie.

That's right Kellie one of the most experienced dancers to do the show. No problems there with experience, whereas Katie, who admittedly was out classed by the others, was a non dancers who was practically told off in the final for daring to be there amongst the best experienced dancers.
Last year was almost the prototype for Never Danced Before pushing - it was Anita's storyline and reached a crescendo in the week leading up to the semi final - where she was unceremoniously dumped over someone whose Never Danced Before was a bad thing.

Strange times
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Old 21-12-2016, 11:05
meglosmurmurs
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True but a lot of people are followers and the judges did mention quite a few times about how great one dancer was who had no experience and this I think sways a lot of people and they know it. The winner was good, liked his moves but he wasnt a patch on Danny and they knew that too.
That's what people always think when they disagree with the majority.

I don't think Len has any kind of mind-control, if people are willing to listen to his comments and take them to heart then the chances are they were already headed down that path anyway and had bought their Ore t-shirt.

We've seen what happens when Len says something that people don't agree with, they get mad at him and are motivated to vote the other way.
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Old 21-12-2016, 11:12
coppertop1
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Exactly, Aggs, never dancing before is dependant on the specific storyline being pushed a good, bad or doesn't matter at all, thing.

I can't keep up.

Certainly last year Helen was beaten about the head every single week with balletic, in this year I do beleive I heard that term used about Ore in the rumba as a good thing. Also Loiuse as good in her Paso but it was bad for Danny in his rumba.

Consistency would be nice but I realise since SCD doesn't know from week to week what they want how can they be consistent.

Actually day to day, poor Will fell fouled of that one, how exciting, how innovative, how good, how bad, how dare they do a Bollywood.

To those saying there is no manipulation, I just don't see how it can't be seen.

There is obviously no grand plan, they don't start the series with a specific winner in mind, but boy do they play with storylines to manipulate what ever it is they want that particular day or hour.
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Old 21-12-2016, 11:16
coppertop1
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It is the mixture of talent, experience that gives the show it's appeal , I would prefer 12 Danny's but I can see the show would not be as popular shame but the truth
Oh no I loved Ed and JR this year, even Daisy and Greg. Any of those could have been a finalist if they had carried on improving, in my book.

If they continued to improve I wouldn't have minded any of those winning either as they entertained me a lot.
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