Let the foaming at the mouth commence!

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...oopers-charter

“General and indiscriminate retention” of emails and electronic communications by governments is illegal, the EU’s highest court has ruled in a judgment that could trigger challenges against the UK’s new Investigatory Powers Act, the so-called snooper’s charter.

Only targeted interception of traffic and location data in order to combat serious crime is justified, according to a long-awaited decision by the European court of justice (ECJ) in Luxembourg.

The finding by came in response to a legal challenge initially brought by the Brexit secretary, David Davis, when he was a backbench MP, and Tom Watson, Labour’s deputy leader, over the legality of GCHQ’s bulk interception of call records and online messages.

Random collection of bulk data is not only of little value but it is also quite wrong for any democracy to spy on its own "free" population and will no doubt be abused from time to time as well.

Politicians have allowed, indeed encouraged, government agencies to morph into something akin to those that operated in the USSR and who viewed their own people as enemies to be watched and controlled.

All this in the name of freedom and democracy and allegedly protecting us terrorists.

Slightly different, i know, but I had to smile when I heard the CIA complaining that Trump didn't believe them over Russian involvement in hacking Clinton. This from an organisation that has blood on its hands, has been active in destabilising entire countries and cannot ever be trusted to tell the truth.

No doubt Trump would rather it wasn't true and maybe it isn't and maybe the Russians were involved, who knows, but the CIA trustworthy? I think not.

I have to laugh out loud that one of the biggest proponents of leaving the EU.... has used the EU to quash this. Maybe the EU isn't so bad after all

I read an interview with the former head of the East German Stasi who said they would have loved the "Snooper's Charter" in the days of the DDR but even he said that such carte blanche surveillance of the population had no place in a democracy.

And in just over two years time they will re-introduce the damn thing! At which point we then go to the ECHR (which is the one which is not part of the EU).

You couldn't make it up, hilarious. His ears will be burning this morning.

What a pity most of our own spineless MPs passed this draconian legislation that it required someone else to point out the simple fact that it has no place in a democracy.

Trouble is the UK is like the US in that the security services have too much influence and too much to gain by constantly ramping up the threat thus ensuring greater powers and more funding from politicians and a carefully brain-washed population that is told we're keeping you safe.

David Davis is one of, if not the only Conservative MP who has longstanding rep in this area.

Regardless of his views on the EU, his views on civil liberties and spying are also clear and unwavering.

[quote=ChrisTaka;84935003]You couldn't make it up, hilarious. His ears will be burning this morning.[/QUOTE

Davis has been one of the few MPs who has consistently stood against spying on the British people and also the introduction of identity cards which Labour wanted to do.

At around that time vast quantities of personal data held by government departments was being stolen/lost/hacked and generally made available to any crook
or terrorist who wanted it by incompetence, stupidity or insecure systems.

No wonder government databases are to be avoided.

So good luck to Davis and as for the ECJ only a fool wouldn't use every weapon available to him to stop something as bad as this law.

But it shouldn't need them our own useless MPs needed to stop it and for whatever reason they didn't.

Isn't it funny how our reident Brexiters aren't annoyed about the EU "sticking their nose in", "telling us how to run our country", "overruling our sovreignety" etc

Now the EU's done something they agree with, they change their tune. This is the sort of situation where you'd expect your typical brexiter to be up in arms!

It is a British MP who has taken this forward primarily because the ***** in Westminster are too spineless and moronic to have stood up for our rights.

However, don't forget the ECJ opines on matters of law and if the ****s in government have gone too far (legally) then they suffer the consequences.

Pity more of our supine population didn't get off their arses to proteest to their MPs in the fiirst place.

But have I changed my mind about the EU? No.

David Davis, just brilliant. At least he redeems himself by aligning himself with Tom Watson, similar to when Mr Davis aligned himself with Shami Chakrabarti over identify cards.

And yet he voted FOR it when it went through Parliament.

One of the few who voted against it was Jeremy Corbyn.

https://home.38degrees.org.uk/2014/0...-vote-privacy/

When I hear "taking back control" I translate it to "losing control" - as by taking away the EU we are taking away an organisation that could and would back up the population should the elected government start descending Draconian laws on us.

When the EU has gone, what's next for the chop - workers rights? Maternity pay? Paid holidays? Open goal for any government, let alone a Tory one.

Theresa May would have fit in perfectly under the old USSR, she has exactly the right mindset.

Not only a liar but she has repressive instincts and considers everyone as a "suspect".

Eventually the EU will become that thing you fear, with no higher power to turn to.


We have already seen this situation with Labour from 1997.
Initially Labour were who we turned to to save us from the Tories repressive authoritarianism.

And yet within a short time, with the Tories unelectable, it was Labour who were the threat to civil liberties.


There is a pattern here. The wannabe dictators promise to free us from the current dictators.
There is no solution in continuing this game.

The irony : the UK wants to snoop on its citizens but the horrible EU say such activity is completely illegal. I guess "taking back control" has a variety of meanings

The ECJ has ruled that a "general and indiscriminate retention" of data is against EU law and can only be done under certain conditions and "solely for the purpose of fighting serious crime".

Its ruling confirms a preliminary verdict in July. The case now returns to the UK Court of Appeal, which had referred the case to the ECJ for clarification.

Mr Davis, who had long campaigned on civil liberties issues, left the case after Theresa May appointed him to her cabinet in July.

I can't see many people complaining about this ruling as the high court ruled against the government and so has the ECJ. I'm surprised a case wasn't also taken to the ECtHR as it is likely this legislation is in breach of article 8.

Just wait until we "restore" the Sovereignty of the UK Parliament and then the government will be able to pass these laws without the interference of the EU and the courts. That should make the Leavers happy.

As said above expect a claim in the ECHR once we leave the EU. The ECHR is not contingent upon membership of the EU.

Just wait for the campaign to leave the ECHR so that "unelected foreign judges" can't tell us what to do.

In fact when she was Home Secretary, Mrs May was in favour of withdrawing:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-eu-referendum

but she ditched the idea when she started her campaign to be PM

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/685...an-Rights-Tory

What gives you the idea that someone who voted leave is by definition happy with a government that wants to watch everything we do?

What we actually need is the British people to complain long and loud and tell their MPs that what we want is a parliament that actually cares for our freedoms and doesn't simply vote them away. Trouble is there are too many of the "nothing to hide nothing to fear" idiots who will accept anything if they are told it's good for them.

This ruling will probably mean nothing in the end so don't expect some about turn by the politicians.

Being in the EU does not guarantee freedom from government snooping.

Normal countries have constitutions that prevent this sort of thing.

I have to hold my hands up here - in this instance I am pleased with the ECJ's ruling.

But I'm still anti-EU overall. One swallow doesn't make a summer.