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Old 28-12-2016, 12:43
MrEdgarFinchley
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...It also lost power because for some reason this version switched the key protagonist from the barrister who grills each witness in court, to a lowly solicitor who does not, cannot, because solicitors may not represent their clients before judges. I can't think why producers let this pass, it watered down the whole thing.

In addition, this very non-Christie back story about the son in the Great War was utter drivel, the worst kind of bad psychology and totally irrelevant.
Those are the very reasons I felt the adaptation/reimagining was so compelling. Admittedly, I only tuned in for Kim Cattrall (Christie's endless Deus ex Machina plot twists not my cuppa at all - long live Colin Watson and Inspector Purbright is what I say).

By the time Mrs French was despatched I was hooked on the real mystery of the piece; the dynamics and interactions between the Mayhews and the Voles, and the contrast between the outcomes for both. I learned from my own father just before he died that his family became dysfunctional after the loss of his eldest brother at Passchendale in 1917 - sputum aside my grandparents had clearly been destroyed by their son's death and depression and alienation from each other was the outcome.
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Old 28-12-2016, 12:55
Baz_James
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I wonder why Agatha Christie is held in such high esteem? The ''Golden Age'' of crime novelists also include Margery Allingham: Ngaio Marsh, and Dorothy Sayers, whom I prefer to Agatha tbh
Sales, fiendishly clever puzzles, and prolificness (anybody any idea what the right word is for the state of being prolific?) Allingham, Marsh and Sayers all suffer a little from being more than a little in love with their protagonists where Christie, not liking Poirot at all, is able to give a fuller, less adoring account of him. Their mysteries also tend to be a little less mysterious and their puzzles a little less puzzling than Christie's.

I'm not sure you can call any of them neglected however, at least in TV terms, all having had series devoted to their heros Campion, Alleyn, and Wimsey. The same cannot be said for other Golden Age writers such as Michael Innes with over 30 Appleby novels to plunder.
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Old 28-12-2016, 12:59
Marispiper
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Enlighten me.
Why was the girl in the trench anyway? A most unlikely place to find an attractive woman.
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Old 28-12-2016, 12:59
Swanandduck2
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I've just realised that the actress who played Romaine and the actress who played Robbie Coltrane's daughter in National Treasure are one and the same. She looked totally different in each drama.
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Old 28-12-2016, 13:02
Baz_James
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Those are the very reasons I felt the adaptation/reimagining was so compelling. .
Indeed. Sadly, despite years of experience, it seems that a lot of people still expect adaptations to be word for word recreations of the original story, the point of which escapes me entirely. Read the books if that's what you want. The aim of these Christie adaptations has always been to get to the story behind the print version, to explore the motivations and the darkest imaginings of the characters that the author chose to rather ignore, and it's slightly ridiculous to criticise the result of avowed intent being exactly what it was supposed to be.
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Old 28-12-2016, 13:10
SeasideLady
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Old 28-12-2016, 13:15
Swanandduck2
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Indeed. Sadly, despite years of experience, it seems that a lot of people still expect adaptations to be word for word recreations of the original story, the point of which escapes me entirely. Read the books if that's what you want. The aim of these Christie adaptations has always been to get to the story behind the print version, to explore the motivations and the darkest imaginings of the characters that the author chose to rather ignore, and it's slightly ridiculous to criticise the result of avowed intent being exactly what it was supposed to be.
The Joan Hickson Miss Marples stuck faithfully to the books and were hugely popular and extremely well made and enjoyable.

People enjoy seeing a book they've read 'come to life' on the screen. That's usually the aim of an adaptation. Obviously, modifications have to be made. For instance the slight change to the end of ATTWN last year was necessary because something that worked on the page , wouldn't have worked on screen.

But I don't think the primary aim of AC adaptations has been to delve behind the story and devise motivations and characteristics that were never implied by the author. In fact, AC was very good at subtly telling the reader an awful lot without actually saying it, relying on their intelligence to put two and two together, without her having to go into graphic or sordid detail about everything.
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Old 28-12-2016, 13:58
Baz_James
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But I don't think the primary aim of AC adaptations has been to delve behind the story and devise motivations and characteristics that were never implied by the author.
No, it hasn't been in the past. It is now for these particular BBC adaptations. The adaptor has been chosen for that specific reason and has been more than candid about her approach in interviews with several publications throughout the process of creating both stories. It should therefore have come as absolutely no surprise.
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Old 28-12-2016, 14:10
Nihonga
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Ah, well, the Voles will probably find that in 3-4 years all that money is lost, reducing their lives back to square one The fools.
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Old 28-12-2016, 14:15
tabithakitten
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There will always be something of a problem for most people if they see a story they know well changed significantly. I enjoyed this for what it was and do think the acting, pretty much across the board, was excellent.

I very much liked the parts that were fairly faithful to the original (Vole and Romaine were both extremely good) and I didn't mind the invented twist with Janet's execution; Monica Dolan seems to excel playing that type of character. I was also impressed with Kim Cattrall's Emily French and I definitely wasn't sure about that casting when I first heard about it. I think she pulled it off and acted it well.

I didn't particularly like the excessive focus on Mayhew. I understand why the writer did it and it certainly added to the story - just not in a way that I personally enjoyed. I didn't like Mayhew much as a character - I found him creepy and not really sympathetic. Despite what had happened to them, I didn't find myself sympathising with his wife either so the preponderance of scenes that featured them both had little effect on me. I find the central premise of the original story fascinating and it seemed that the crime and the trial were almost incidental. Again, I can see why an adaptation might choose to do that but it didn't particularly work for me personally because the characters it did choose to focus on weren't (imo) very likeable.

But as I said, it was still an entertaining way to spend a couple of hours. I'm glad I watched it.
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Old 28-12-2016, 14:16
Tom_Mullen
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I've just realised that the actress who played Romaine and the actress who played Robbie Coltrane's daughter in National Treasure are one and the same. She looked totally different in each drama.
Didn't realise that was her, can't believe how different she looks in the two shows!
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Old 28-12-2016, 14:20
digitalspyfan1
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The BBC's And Then There Were None from last christmas had a drug party scene. I don't know if that was in Agatha Christie's book! Was Agatha a secret junkie?



I suppose you have to make the stories more relevant and gritty.
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Old 28-12-2016, 15:15
Granny McSmith
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Which is probably why there won't be another attempt for some time to come (though I certainly wouldn't cavil at a re-run!) There are of course relatively few Wimsey stories which also tends to limit the potential and then there's the famous Nine Tailors non-lethal instrument of death problem to contend with!
ust to be clear - when I said they got Peter right, I meant the Edward Petherbridge version, and definitely not Ian Carmichael.

Sales, fiendishly clever puzzles, and prolificness (anybody any idea what the right word is for the state of being prolific?) Allingham, Marsh and Sayers all suffer a little from being more than a little in love with their protagonists where Christie, not liking Poirot at all, is able to give a fuller, less adoring account of him. Their mysteries also tend to be a little less mysterious and their puzzles a little less puzzling than Christie's.

I'm not sure you can call any of them neglected however, at least in TV terms, all having had series devoted to their heros Campion, Alleyn, and Wimsey. The same cannot be said for other Golden Age writers such as Michael Innes with over 30 Appleby novels to plunder.
BiB - and who can blame them?

Re Appleby - I do agree. And Edmund Crispin's Gervase Fen books, though completely un-PC, are surely worth a TV series?
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Old 28-12-2016, 15:26
Baz_James
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ust to be clear - when I said they got Peter right, I meant the Edward Petherbridge version, and definitely not Ian Carmichael.
Yup. I watched most of that series with two friends in my college room on a seven inch black and white set such was our dedication. I also went to see the play (Busman's Holiday) with Petherbridge but not Harriet Walter after the series was finished.
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Old 28-12-2016, 15:31
Andy2
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My only previous exposure to this story was the old film with Charles Laughton. Very good that one. This one changed things around a little, but it was very good itself and I thought Toby Jones (who I often think misses his mark) was extremely good.

I always mix this story up with 'Beyond a Reasonable Doubt' and 'The Paradine Case', both also excellent films. 'Reasonable Doubt' is a real thriller - it looks like an innocent man is about to be executed...or is he?
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Old 28-12-2016, 16:39
Ben_Fisher1
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No, it hasn't been in the past. It is now for these particular BBC adaptations. The adaptor has been chosen for that specific reason and has been more than candid about her approach in interviews with several publications throughout the process of creating both stories. It should therefore have come as absolutely no surprise.
Sorry, I am all for adding to stories, but if you change it too much it becomes almost an original work. This is what I felt watching this. Too much added by far. Not so much an adaptation as a re-working.
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Old 28-12-2016, 16:59
Baz_James
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Sorry, I am all for adding to stories, but if you change it too much it becomes almost an original work. This is what I felt watching this. Too much added by far. Not so much an adaptation as a re-working.
Not sure that there's anything but semantics separating adaptation and re-working but either way the fact remains that there has never been any lack of clarity as to the intentions and one must therefore assume the blessings and approval of the Christie rights holders (not least because they've just done a deal for another seven stories) and wonder how people did not know what to expect.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:17
enna_g
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Enlighten me.
Why was the girl in the trench anyway? A most unlikely place to find an attractive woman.
I wondered that too. Has anyone got an explanation?
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Old 28-12-2016, 20:00
Granny McSmith
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Yup. I watched most of that series with two friends in my college room on a seven inch black and white set such was our dedication. I also went to see the play (Busman's Holiday) with Petherbridge but not Harriet Walter after the series was finished.
Oh, who was Harriet? Surely no one could play her as well as Harriet Walter?

It's a shame the BBC didn't get thr rights to Busman's holiday.

The Petherbridge/Walter stories are on you tube, btw - I watch them sometimes when I need a Lord Peter fix (not quite every week).

I'll shut up about Wimsey now as I'm aware I'm off topic and on my hobby horse...again.
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Old 28-12-2016, 20:45
Swanandduck2
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Not sure that there's anything but semantics separating adaptation and re-working but either way the fact remains that there has never been any lack of clarity as to the intentions and one must therefore assume the blessings and approval of the Christie rights holders (not least because they've just done a deal for another seven stories) and wonder how people did not know what to expect.
There's a difference between 'a new way of interpreting' Agatha Christie stories, as was the stated intention, and completely changing the tone and timbre so that they bear little resemblance to the style of the original author.

This one missed the mark and many viewers were uncomfortable with that. Nothing to do with limited expectations and everything to do with assuming the author's style and ethic would be respected.
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:17
Prince Monalulu
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Hey ho, in summary Christie fans expecting the books better stay well away from the others that the BBC is planning.

Us non fans can tune in and probably enjoy the rest as dramas in their own right.
I hope there's nothing more like last years plot or I won't be watching.
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:20
Prince Monalulu
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Not sure that there's anything but semantics separating adaptation and re-working but either way the fact remains that there has never been any lack of clarity as to the intentions and one must therefore assume the blessings and approval of the Christie rights holders (not least because they've just done a deal for another seven stories) and wonder how people did not know what to expect.
Maybe people tune into something and don't go off doing research reading various articles before they watch it.
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:26
Takae
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Don't think they swore like that back then either. my bloody but not the f word.
Some did. Those swear words just didn't show up in radio plays, movies and literature. Especially genre fiction for the lower classes.

I worked as a researcher on a history programme too many years ago when we found two surviving letters that hadn't been destroyed by a letter writer's relative (probably the widow). The first surviving letter, to an older brother, was written in 1902 and the second to an old school friend in 1911. Those letters contained a few instances of the F word, a couple of the C word, and a ditty that mentioned "squishy globes" and "fleshy lips".

We also found a box of audio reels of actors auditioning for The Harbour Lights, a 1923 silent film. On one of those reels: after an unidentified actor fluffed his line for the fourth time, there was a male voice (might belong to director Tom Terriss) snapping, "Do get on with it for fxxx's sake!" I think you can hear this yourself if you visit the BFI archives.

All that said, I do think people back then were a lot more creative with swearing than we are now.
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:58
Prince Monalulu
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I can't think anyone would seriously think 'they' didn't swear 'back then'
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Old 28-12-2016, 22:08
Takae
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I wonder why Agatha Christie is held in such high esteem? The ''Golden Age'' of crime novelists also include Margery Allingham: Ngaio Marsh, and Dorothy Sayers, whom I prefer to Agatha tbh
Film, radio and TV adaptations.

Some books remain in print for decades because of successful adaptations and/or a sheer number of adaptations, e.g. Dickens, Austen and the like. Especially if they are used in education.

Christie's books are among the most adapted. So far: 49 film adaptations, around 100 TV adaptations and nine video games. I can't even count radio adaptations. Far too many. There are 13 more adaptations on the way, too.

On the other hand, Sayers only had one film adaptation (Busman's Honeymoon in 1940) and a few TV adaptations. Her works tend to be more successful as radio adaptations and audio books.

Basically, Sayers's name isn't recognisable enough to be a brand like Agatha Christie. It'd be a different story if she had a lot more film/TV adaptations.
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