|
||||||||
Witness for the prosecution |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|
#351 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 8,098
|
Quote:
But that's totally separate from Agatha Christie's story. If the BBC want to commission a drama on that theme, fine. But hanging it on Agatha Christie's name, just to attract an audience who enjoy her books, is deceptive, no matter how much they try to dress it up in artsy 'new interpretations' language.
The 1957 film with Charles Laughton had a totally different ending to the one penned for the BBC. In the film it's the barrister not the Toby Jones character who is the one in ill health. In the film, Romaine is called 'Christine'. What follows below is the final scene in the film. Leonard has overheard Christine's admission and, now protected by double jeopardy, cheerfully confirms to Sir Wilfred that he had indeed killed Mrs French. Sir Wilfrid is infuriated at being had. Leonard then coldly tells Christine that he has met a younger woman and is leaving Christine. In a jealous rage, Christine grabs a knife, which had earlier been used as evidence by the defence and stabs Leonard to death. After she is taken away by the police, Sir Wilfrid, urged on by Miss Plimsoll, declares that he will take on Christine's defence. There have been various different adaptations over the years, the BBC's is simply another. |
|
|
|
|
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
|
|
|
#352 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: glasgow
Posts: 1,616
|
Quote:
Didn't we see him coming up for air in one scene?
|
|
|
|
|
|
#353 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,499
|
Quote:
Didn't we see him coming up for air in one scene?
maybe was a bit sexual... or was that her housemaid telling the court that the relationship was more than just friends.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#354 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 8,098
|
Quote:
Hey ho, in summary Christie fans expecting the books better stay well away from the others that the BBC is planning.
Us non fans can tune in and probably enjoy the rest as dramas in their own right. I hope there's nothing more like last years plot or I won't be watching. |
|
|
|
|
|
#355 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Londonia :o>
Posts: 11,144
|
Quote:
It felt totally superfluous to the rest of the story - as if they had to tag it onto the end to get the full two hour running time. I think it would have worked better if that entire scene had been cut (ditto, the scene were they were clumsily having sex), so it had ended with Mayhew walking away from the Voles in the hotel corridor. Either that, or after the big reveal by the Voles, Mayhew returns to his hotel room, tells his wife he's going for a walk, then it cuts to him walking into the sea. He was distraught enough after the Voles' reveal - there was no need to suddenly have his wife kick him (metaphorically) in the guts.
The ending aside, I thought it was atmospheric and, on the whole, well acted (the scene with the maid being led to the execution room was particularly powerful). It did need to be better paced - they could easily have reduced it to 90 minutes. Oh and that bloody repetitive tune (I found myself humming it at work the next day...!!!) .Quote:
Personally, I feel that some of the criticisms have been a bit harsh.
I am glad I stuck with it though, the story line may have been somewhat stretched a bit and the ending could have been a bit more breathtaking than that walk out to sea. But having not read/know of the story before, it was still a tale that kept me interested as I had originally thought the singer's partner may have had something to do with the murder! And despite ATTWN being the better portrayed tale, this was one of the top telly moments for this Christmas for me. The acting was well done, especially the maid and the solicitor, and good attention to detail, although smog inside the solicitor's room may had been a little too much detail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#356 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: I'm a she not a he.
Posts: 3,192
|
Quote:
Hmm! if you look at the original novel Christie wasn't happy with the ending. It actually finished with Vole being found not guilty - the end. She later amended the novel to add the extra twist of a mistress.
The 1957 film with Charles Laughton had a totally different ending to the one penned for the BBC. In the film it's the barrister not the Toby Jones character who is the one in ill health. In the film, Romaine is called 'Christine'. What follows below is the final scene in the film. Leonard has overheard Christine's admission and, now protected by double jeopardy, cheerfully confirms to Sir Wilfred that he had indeed killed Mrs French. Sir Wilfrid is infuriated at being had. Leonard then coldly tells Christine that he has met a younger woman and is leaving Christine. In a jealous rage, Christine grabs a knife, which had earlier been used as evidence by the defence and stabs Leonard to death. After she is taken away by the police, Sir Wilfrid, urged on by Miss Plimsoll, declares that he will take on Christine's defence. There have been various different adaptations over the years, the BBC's is simply another. |
|
|
|
|
|
#357 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bristol
Posts: 9,437
|
Caught up with this last night. As a character study of the solicitor and the nature of love and loss, guilt and atonement it was fine. As a whodunnit, it was terrible, but I don't know whether I was simply assuming it would be a murder mystery story, with it being a Christie story, or whether it's supposed to be, and it was just this adaptation that chose to make that a side-plot. If it's the latter, though, I think if you're going to put Christie's name in the title and make it the follow up to last year's successful ATTWN, people are going to reasonably assume it will be in a similar vein.
Trouble is, even as a character study, it didn't quite work. Where did that last ten minutes or so suddenly spring from? It was obvious the marriage had difficulties - and that they both knew that, and which John was trying to work through (but maybe less so his wife) - but the whole 'You came back, he didn't' scene seemed tacked on to give it the emotional depth it was lacking, and as if that was supposed to be the big twist of the drama. (Although to be fair, it's true I didn't see it coming.) I thought the murder twist was creative, but that whole sub-plot was so completely lacking in tension or suspense that it just washed over me with barely a reaction, let alone a sharp intake of breath. Questions (apologies if they've already been gone over): - how or why was the maid so easily convicted? It all seemed to be down to blood on her cuffs, the killing of the cat, the loss of her stipend and her 'hysterical' reaction on the stand. Surely that wouldn't be sufficient, even in the '20's? There seemed to be an under-current of feminism, so was it a subtle comment on the the rise of suffrage, and by extension a backlash to it by an all-male police force and jury? (I'm probably giving the writing far more credit here than it deserves). - why did Mayhew break down when he heard Romaine singing for the first time? Was it her? The song? In fact, why did he seem to be fixated/ fascinated by her at all? - what was all that guff about 'the young' that Leonard and Romaine were talking about after Mayhew learned the truth? It seemed like they were suggesting that Mayhew was so desperate to get Leonard acquitted as some sort of atonement for not being able to save his son, but it was just one line. |
|
|
|
|
|
#358 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,499
|
Quote:
I was just going to comment on this - what he was doing to her on that bed was definitely sexual!
we were thinking was it all in the maids imagination, was she telling the truth about what she saw or just making it up to implicate vole. I guess she was telling the truth in the end. |
|
|
|
|
|
#359 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
Caught up with this last night. As a character study of the solicitor and the nature of love and loss, guilt and atonement it was fine. As a whodunnit, it was terrible, but I don't know whether I was simply assuming it would be a murder mystery story, with it being a Christie story, or whether it's supposed to be, and it was just this adaptation that chose to make that a side-plot. If it's the latter, though, I think if you're going to put Christie's name in the title and make it the follow up to last year's successful ATTWN, people are going to reasonably assume it will be in a similar vein.
Trouble is, even as a character study, it didn't quite work. Where did that last ten minutes or so suddenly spring from? It was obvious the marriage had difficulties - and that they both knew that, and which John was trying to work through (but maybe less so his wife) - but the whole 'You came back, he didn't' scene seemed tacked on to give it the emotional depth it was lacking, and as if that was supposed to be the big twist of the drama. (Although to be fair, it's true I didn't see it coming.) I thought the murder twist was creative, but that whole sub-plot was so completely lacking in tension or suspense that it just washed over me with barely a reaction, let alone a sharp intake of breath. Questions (apologies if they've already been gone over): - how or why was the maid so easily convicted? It all seemed to be down to blood on her cuffs, the killing of the cat, the loss of her stipend and her 'hysterical' reaction on the stand. Surely that wouldn't be sufficient, even in the '20's? There seemed to be an under-current of feminism, so was it a subtle comment on the the rise of suffrage, and by extension a backlash to it by an all-male police force and jury? (I'm probably giving the writing far more credit here than it deserves). - why did Mayhew break down when he heard Romaine singing for the first time? Was it her? The song? In fact, why did he seem to be fixated/ fascinated by her at all? - what was all that guff about 'the young' that Leonard and Romaine were talking about after Mayhew learned the truth? It seemed like they were suggesting that Mayhew was so desperate to get Leonard acquitted as some sort of atonement for not being able to save his son, but it was just one line. How you managed to miss the strains of "You came back, he didn't" running through the entire piece I simply have no idea. Why did you think that Mrs Mayhew visited the son's room every day and sat stroking his clothes? Why did you think Mayhew was sobbing like a baby at the theatre? Did you not hear Romaine say "this was never about whether Leonard was innocent but whether you were" or words to that effect? People were convicted and hanged on far flimsier evidence than in the maid's case. Read any of the works by people leading the campaign to end hanging in UK for a slew of miscarriages of justice that'll make your eyes water! |
|
|
|
|
|
#360 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,590
|
Overall thought it was dreadful though it did have some redeeming features.
The maid was very good and I like the fact that it didn't have the melodramatic ending of the 1957 film version or the theatre version I've seen. But then it had another melodramatic ending instead. Toby's cough cleared up remarkably well. Obviously it had all been caused by his oversized moustache, once that went so did the cough. I wonder if the moustache was drowned in the pond alongside the cat? |
|
|
|
|
|
#361 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: London
Posts: 14,737
|
Quote:
Overall thought it was dreadful though it did have some redeeming features.
I hate it when they try to make Agatha Christie gritty and meddle with the storyline. Most people like her stories for the puzzle element not gore or realism. |
|
|
|
|
|
#362 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,543
|
Quote:
(snip)
Questions (apologies if they've already been gone over): - how or why was the maid so easily convicted? It all seemed to be down to blood on her cuffs, the killing of the cat, the loss of her stipend and her 'hysterical' reaction on the stand. Surely that wouldn't be sufficient, even in the '20's? There seemed to be an under-current of feminism, so was it a subtle comment on the the rise of suffrage, and by extension a backlash to it by an all-male police force and jury? (I'm probably giving the writing far more credit here than it deserves). - why did Mayhew break down when he heard Romaine singing for the first time? Was it her? The song? In fact, why did he seem to be fixated/ fascinated by her at all? - what was all that guff about 'the young' that Leonard and Romaine were talking about after Mayhew learned the truth? It seemed like they were suggesting that Mayhew was so desperate to get Leonard acquitted as some sort of atonement for not being able to save his son, but it was just one line. - and why didn't he cross check the business of Romaine having a lover? He never tried to find this fictitious person... sloppy work! - how did the murdering couple think they were going to get away with it without the police looking for the real killer? If Leonard didn't do it, who did? The murderous pair could not have known beforehand that the maid was going to hang herself...? |
|
|
|
|
|
#363 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
- also why did Mayhew not go and check out "Miss Moffat's" story with the theatre about being maimed by Romaine? Surely somebody there must have known she left bcs she was pregnant.
- and why didn't he cross check the business of Romaine having a lover? He never tried to find this fictitious person... sloppy work! - how did the murdering couple think they were going to get away with it without the police looking for the real killer? If Leonard didn't do it, who did? The murderous pair could not have known beforehand that the maid was going to hang herself...? Similarly why check for the lover when he's got a letter in her handwriting to the man in question? Moreover, it's his job to get his client acquitted not to conduct the investigation. He has all he needs to do the job. It's up to the prosecution to overturn the evidence which as their witness is basically admitting to her dalliance in the witness box would be just a little difficult. Finally, you seem to have forgotten that you cannot be tried twice for the same crime under the law of double indemnity. Once acquitted it matters not a hoot if absolute proof that you committed the crime surfaces subsequently. The maid being convicted is simply a nice little bonus which preserves his reputation. It doesn't affect his legal status in the slightest. |
|
|
|
|
|
#364 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
I agree. The only redeeming feature was the excellent performance of the actress playing Romaine.
I hate it when they try to make Agatha Christie gritty and meddle with the storyline. Most people like her stories for the puzzle element not gore or realism. |
|
|
|
|
|
#365 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,590
|
Quote:
You'll forgive me for pointing out that your hate is not grounds for them not to do it especially when the Christie executors have given their explicit blessing to the project. There has been more than fair warning about how the stories will be approached so you can easily avoid it by simply not watching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#366 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
Really? I didn't see any. And all the pre publicity stressed it was a Christie story, not a Christie story butchered to bits by the adaptor and director.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#367 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,348
|
Finding a dead cat in the pond proved nothing anyway, it could have fallen in itself or been taken ill & fallen in. To say The maid is a murderer on that evidence is rubbish, indeed Mayhew himself could have planted it.!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#368 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,590
|
Quote:
Yes really. Here's the Guardian interview with Sarah Phelps for starters.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#369 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
I don't read The Guardian so pretty flimsy evidence to back up your theory. In general people do not read articles about programmes before watching them on TV.
This information was freely available (you conveniently ignored my declaration that the Guardian article was only 'for starters', I note). If people were happy to ignore it and blindly watch a programme without having made any effort to determine whether it will appeal to them then that's their right, of course. But they don't then get to moan and groan about how it wasn't what they expected afterward as if it's anyone else's fault but their own. |
|
|
|
|
|
#370 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
Finding a dead cat in the pond proved nothing anyway, it could have fallen in itself or been taken ill & fallen in. To say The maid is a murderer on that evidence is rubbish, indeed Mayhew himself could have planted it.!
|
|
|
|
|
|
#371 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 672
|
Quote:
Well that's not at all a sweeping generalistation based on zero actual evidence. The Radio Times is still selling 3/4m copies each week, the TV Times 200k, every major newspaper has a TV guide with reviews, previews and recommendations, there are many websites devoted to TV (including this one), but obviously the fact that you don't read the Guardian trumps all that.
This information was freely available (you conveniently ignored my declaration that the Guardian article was only 'for starters', I note). If people were happy to ignore it and blindly watch a programme without having made any effort to determine whether it will appeal to them then that's their right, of course. But they don't then get to moan and groan about how it wasn't what they expected afterward as if it's anyone else's fault but their own. |
|
|
|
|
|
#372 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,590
|
Quote:
Well that's not at all a sweeping generalistation based on zero actual evidence. The Radio Times is still selling 3/4m copies each week, the TV Times 200k, every major newspaper has a TV guide with reviews, previews and recommendations, there are many websites devoted to TV (including this one), but obviously the fact that you don't read the Guardian trumps all that.
This information was freely available (you conveniently ignored my declaration that the Guardian article was only 'for starters', I note). If people were happy to ignore it and blindly watch a programme without having made any effort to determine whether it will appeal to them then that's their right, of course. But they don't then get to moan and groan about how it wasn't what they expected afterward as if it's anyone else's fault but their own. |
|
|
|
|
|
#373 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,590
|
Quote:
It does sometimes look as if you take personal offence at any criticism of a TV programme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#374 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Honiton, Devon
Posts: 1,930
|
Quote:
It does sometimes look as if you take personal offence at any criticism of a TV programme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
#375 |
|
Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: I'm a she not a he.
Posts: 3,192
|
Quote:
Caught up with this last night. As a character study of the solicitor and the nature of love and loss, guilt and atonement it was fine. As a whodunnit, it was terrible, but I don't know whether I was simply assuming it would be a murder mystery story, with it being a Christie story, or whether it's supposed to be, and it was just this adaptation that chose to make that a side-plot. If it's the latter, though, I think if you're going to put Christie's name in the title and make it the follow up to last year's successful ATTWN, people are going to reasonably assume it will be in a similar vein.
Trouble is, even as a character study, it didn't quite work. Where did that last ten minutes or so suddenly spring from? It was obvious the marriage had difficulties - and that they both knew that, and which John was trying to work through (but maybe less so his wife) - but the whole 'You came back, he didn't' scene seemed tacked on to give it the emotional depth it was lacking, and as if that was supposed to be the big twist of the drama. (Although to be fair, it's true I didn't see it coming.) I thought the murder twist was creative, but that whole sub-plot was so completely lacking in tension or suspense that it just washed over me with barely a reaction, let alone a sharp intake of breath. Questions (apologies if they've already been gone over): - how or why was the maid so easily convicted? It all seemed to be down to blood on her cuffs, the killing of the cat, the loss of her stipend and her 'hysterical' reaction on the stand. Surely that wouldn't be sufficient, even in the '20's? There seemed to be an under-current of feminism, so was it a subtle comment on the the rise of suffrage, and by extension a backlash to it by an all-male police force and jury? (I'm probably giving the writing far more credit here than it deserves). - why did Mayhew break down when he heard Romaine singing for the first time? Was it her? The song? In fact, why did he seem to be fixated/ fascinated by her at all? - what was all that guff about 'the young' that Leonard and Romaine were talking about after Mayhew learned the truth? It seemed like they were suggesting that Mayhew was so desperate to get Leonard acquitted as some sort of atonement for not being able to save his son, but it was just one line. I also agree with your other points. |
|
|
|
![]() |
|
All times are GMT. The time now is 11:10.




maybe was a bit sexual...
or was that her housemaid telling the court that the relationship was more than just friends.
.