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The Case Of Jonbenet Ramsey. More 4.


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Old 29-12-2016, 08:41
Elvisfan4eva
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Burke Ramsey is suing CBS for $750 million.
Wow that's a lot. Wonder if he'll have to appear and give his version of what happened.
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Old 29-12-2016, 21:07
suesuesue
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What hasn't been addressed by the investigators yet is why she had marks on her neck consistent with her nails desperately trying to loosen the ligature around her neck. I'm sure I heard the investigators saying she was already dead by the blow to the head and the ligature was a staged effort after she had died.

I've never had a case where I can swing one way and then the other so much. One thing is clear, the family know something more about this, or someone, that did this.
Apparently she was brain dead at the time from the blow to the head . Killer didn't realise so strangled her to ensure death. Natural reaction to try and stop strangulation by victim tho not conscious.

The underwear DNA transfer test they did was interesting where they bought new packaged ones and they had DNA on them! Proves the DNA found on hers that wasn't from either male in the house could have come from the manufacturing or packing process but then wouldn't that only be if they were new? Wonder if washing removes DNA.

One book I read about this case once alleged a kidnapper killed her as she struggled whilst they were trying to take her yet even the cops seemed to think there was no child kidnapper/killer at large.
I guess at the time DNA was quite new so they didn't appreciate that it's everywhere . To dismiss the possible link to the family so quickly was foolish and clearly a cover up was happening. What clout John Ramsay had in that community!
I retract my previous post.
A thought provoking, well put together if overlong prog.

The stuff about the cobweb I on the basement window was interesting, the sexual angle was dismissed, with no evidence that she, as was alleged, was being routinely abused by a family member and a believable theory put forward, Burke has always been in the shadows.

On an unrelated and sexist subject the female investigator was rather easy on the eye .
I always thought the "broken" window showed breakage from inside to out rather than someone outside breaking in . Interesting that they said breakage was old made by dad when he forgot key and hadn't got it fixed. A billionaire would leave it broken?

All the cobweb/debris/vegetation stuff proved I think that there was no house invasion . Oh and the British investor turns up on s lot of crime shows in the uk and Ireland


May sound macabre but I've always been fascinated by this case. Years back I saw a doc about the American pageant industry for little girls. Might have been Louis Theroux (prob not) but completely shocking. Girls from age 3 had their hair bleached and permed, false nails and eyelashes, full face or slap, they were taught dance routines and songs similar to 80s Mini Pops on C4, ie overly sexualised. There was a huge industry around this. Evening gowns were made, miniature version of a designer evening frock or Las Vegas showgirl, for tots, price $1000! These moms went for it. For all their
"Oh it's what my little girl wants" it clearly wasn't. Girls crying as mom got them up at 5am to travel 200 miles to the next competition . Mad women, obsessed with their kid winning, as was said in this doc, JonBenet's mom living vicariously thru her "success". Those moms didn't go for the "it's the taking part, darling " route of patenting. They were batshit crazy and the girl clearly knew if she had "failed" momma's dream I mention this because at the end of the doc they said one of the girls featured, JonBenet, had been murdered. They implied it was down to an obsessive/paedo who had seen her on the pageant circuit and tried to kidnap her.

From the intro I guessed they would point a finger at the brother and it is compelling.

Bugbear for me: I loathe people being subtitled unnecessarily. Dr Lee spoke English with a perfectly understandable Chinese accent. So why the subtitles? German groovy haircut Dr spoke English with a German accent (who'd have guessed?) but wasn't subtitled nor was English woman (tho clearly doesn't speak American English so some Americans wouldn't have been familiar)
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Old 29-12-2016, 21:57
striing
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Bugbear for me: I loathe people being subtitled unnecessarily. Dr Lee spoke English with a perfectly understandable Chinese accent. So why the subtitles? German groovy haircut Dr spoke English with a German accent (who'd have guessed?) but wasn't subtitled nor was English woman (tho clearly doesn't speak American English so some Americans wouldn't have been familiar)
I'm glad you said this - I thought it was ridiculous that Dr Lee was subtitled.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:01
thirstyelephant
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Wow that's a lot. Wonder if he'll have to appear and give his version of what happened.
Its really interesting because won't he have to prove he is innocent of what they accused him of? how will he do that?

I wouldn't be surprised if this move by him to sue ends up reopening the case for new investigation. Which he may regret given the new evidence this show alone uncovered ..

The whole thing reminded me of Bobby Beale on EastEnders. Going off this show the actual murder itself basically played out the same way!
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:13
striing
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Its really interesting because won't he have to prove he is innocent of what they accused him of? how will he do that?

I wouldn't be surprised if this move by him to sue ends up reopening the case for new investigation. Which he may regret given the new evidence this show alone uncovered ..
I asked this further up the thread and a poster advised that the burden is on the defence.

I think you will be right about what happens next. I've read about Burke being slated for his affect on Dr Phil. The bit I found most odd in the CBS programme was his refusal to say there was a bowl with pineapple in it. Either he has something atypical about him (which Dr Phil is apparently refuting) or there was something odd going on.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:19
d0lphin
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I asked this further up the thread and a poster advised that the burden is on the defence.

I think you will be right about what happens next. I've read about Burke being slated for his affect on Dr Phil. The bit I found most odd in the CBS programme was his refusal to say there was a bowl with pineapple in it. Either he has something atypical about him (which Dr Phil is apparently refuting) or there was something odd going on.
The interview with Burke Ramsey is worth a watch for anyone who hasn't already seen it. He acts VERY strangely, whether it's down to nerves or something else, who knows?

Re. the bowl of pineapple - that was what clinched it for me. When Burke (aged 9) was shown the photo of the dining room table and the bowl of pineapple his reaction was "Oh" as if he realised then the significance of it.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:25
francie
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- snipped -


May sound macabre but I've always been fascinated by this case. Years back I saw a doc about the American pageant industry for little girls. Might have been Louis Theroux (prob not) but completely shocking. Girls from age 3 had their hair bleached and permed, false nails and eyelashes, full face or slap, they were taught dance routines and songs similar to 80s Mini Pops on C4, ie overly sexualised. There was a huge industry around this. Evening gowns were made, miniature version of a designer evening frock or Las Vegas showgirl, for tots, price $1000! These moms went for it. For all their
"Oh it's what my little girl wants" it clearly wasn't. Girls crying as mom got them up at 5am to travel 200 miles to the next competition . Mad women, obsessed with their kid winning, as was said in this doc, JonBenet's mom living vicariously thru her "success". Those moms didn't go for the "it's the taking part, darling " route of patenting. They were batshit crazy and the girl clearly knew if she had "failed" momma's dream I mention this because at the end of the doc they said one of the girls featured, JonBenet, had been murdered. They implied it was down to an obsessive/paedo who had seen her on the pageant circuit and tried to kidnap her.

From the intro I guessed they would point a finger at the brother and it is compelling.

Bugbear for me: I loathe people being subtitled unnecessarily. Dr Lee spoke English with a perfectly understandable Chinese accent. So why the subtitles? German groovy haircut Dr spoke English with a German accent (who'd have guessed?) but wasn't subtitled nor was English woman (tho clearly doesn't speak American English so some Americans wouldn't have been familiar)
BIB is repugnant imo - to see 5 and 6 years old tottering about in make-up etc is Dressing up is fairly normal when little, big difference between dressing up etc in the privacy of a home and these awful shows.
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Old 29-12-2016, 22:54
Horace Wimp
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The Pageant thing is just a minor aspect to the case, from south east USA, not much popular in Colorado I would wager.
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:12
suesuesue
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The Pageant thing is just a minor aspect to the case, from south east USA, not much popular in Colorado I would wager.
When JonBenet died it wasn't considered minor, the reporting at the time believed the pageant link was a key to her death . That possibly someone had become obsessed with her, stalking her maybe. I don't think the importance of the pageant scene was dismissed until attention turned to the parents and their odd behaviour.

What I can't understand is how the parents could manage the whole investigation, if it could be called an investigation. How can they refuse a police interview or ban the forensic guy from the house? Extraordinary. Doesn't exactly cover the US legal system in glory.
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Old 30-12-2016, 11:58
anyonefortennis
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When JonBenet died it wasn't considered minor, the reporting at the time believed the pageant link was a key to her death . That possibly someone had become obsessed with her, stalking her maybe. I don't think the importance of the pageant scene was dismissed until attention turned to the parents and their odd behaviour.

What I can't understand is how the parents could manage the whole investigation, if it could be called an investigation. How can they refuse a police interview or ban the forensic guy from the house? Extraordinary. Doesn't exactly cover the US legal system in glory.
Wealthy people in America have too much power and influence over the legal system.
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:30
towers
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Like many others, I suspect the brother but there's no firm evidence.

Kidnappers generally don't leave a ransom note in the house with the body STILL IN THE HOUSE. Also, if you genuinely believe that your child has been murdered by a stranger, you'd want the police taking forensics etc as soon as they arrived, rather than make life difficult for them. Even today, you'd think the father and brother would still want answers to her death if they maintain that she was murdered.

My only question is, if the parents WERE covering up for their son, how could they treat their daughters body the way that they did? Putting a rope around her neck should go against your loving instinct but I suppose desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Old 02-01-2017, 21:06
Jules_Baxter
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I watched this today, the one glaringly obvious question that never seemed to get asked during the whole two part program is what would be the point of leaving a ransom note and JonBenet already dead? It defeats the whole object.

The letter did indeed seem ludicrously long and theatrical as did Patsy Ramsey's performance on the 911 calls and in the press conferences - it was interesting when her head nodded in direct contradiction to what she was saying.

The extracts of the phone call after Patsy thought she'd hung up weren't the best, I did feel the "experts" were hearing what they wanted to hear a bit.

The whole family is strange, i find it abnormal that this little girl's family seemed to permanently make her walk around with bleached blonde middle aged woman's hairdo's and bright red lipstick! The Dad seems cold and Burke was definitely weird in the interviews - so detached and happy!! Maybe he was glad to see the back of her because of how much attention she had to get from her parents when being forced into that pageantry lifestyle!

I mean there are basic questions I have like if JonBenet was killed by intruder who the hell did nobody else in the house hear anything! The intruder theory doesn't add up in the slightest.
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