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Cruel to be kind or are we being to harsh?


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Old 22-12-2016, 19:39
marieukxx
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My dad has an old friend I knew from when I was a kid. He worked down the mines plus has always been a very heavy smoker hence now he is on non stop oxygen. He's just got out of hopsital after months in there and he's in a residential care home. He cannot breath at all without his oxygen so it's on all the time, he has a tank plus one to take out.

First thing he did was ring dad and ask him to get him some fags. At this point dad had no idea he was on it permenantly and he gave in and bought him some which the care home staff berated him for and destroyed. They said it's for his safety and the others there. We totally agree and I explained to dad he could blow himself up.

Next day he rings again saying he needs some clothes from his place and can dad pick him up. Dad was happy to help but it turned out he just wanted to stay in dad's car all day as dad went from lace to place shopping and such and he begged dad to buy his cigarettes again and sat in the car on his oxygen smoking all day. Dad was very uncomfortable with this and he said so.

To cut a long story short he's ringing dad and our house non stop everyday begging for him to come park in the carpark so he can come out and have a cigarette. Dad kept them in his car. We've made excuses not to do so. I just listende to his answerphone messages he lefttoday and he's begging dad to come down so he can smoke. He was off the fags for months in hopsital.

I think dad should refuse for both their safety. We feel awful but it's dangerous. He has a big family in town but they don't speak to him. Are we being cruel.
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Old 22-12-2016, 20:18
RandomSally
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I don't think you're being cruel. Just tell him, or your Dad tell him, you want no part in helping him kill himself.

Edited as netcurtains explained the safety issues!
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Old 22-12-2016, 20:21
netcurtains
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He sat in a small enclosed car smoking while on oxygen? Jesus Christ that's dangerous. If he must smoke at least do it outdoors with no one around to minimise the risk.
I feel for the man, addiction of any sort is horrible but bloody hell smoking and oxygen tanks just don't mix,

edited to add, is it possible for him to come off the oxygen long enough to go outside to smoke and then back indoors and back on the tank asap?
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Old 22-12-2016, 20:51
marieukxx
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He sat in a small enclosed car smoking while on oxygen? Jesus Christ that's dangerous. If he must smoke at least do it outdoors with no one around to minimise the risk.
I feel for the man, addiction of any sort is horrible but bloody hell smoking and oxygen tanks just don't mix,

edited to add, is it possible for him to come off the oxygen long enough to go outside to smoke and then back indoors and back on the tank asap?
Yes he was in there all day on it smoking. Dad assumed he could come off it so he could smoke but apparantly he cannot at all. Dad went round shopping and stuff while he sat in the car. The doctors didn't want him having oxygen for a long time but they had to relent when he got so bad. He cannot breath without it. Can barely walk a few steps. We feel very sorry for him as he is badly addicted and he says it's his only pleasure but it's so dangerous. The staff destroyed his first lot of fags, dad didn't realise he wanted them in his room and they won't allow him to have them outside either as he's on the oxygen.

I'm worried about my dad's safety too. He keeps calling with different excuses but each time it's just that he wants to sit in dad's car and smoke.

It's a horrible addiction and he says the residential home is like prison and dad said it wasn't very nice in his tiny room. I feel terrible for him. He asked for "them out the glove compartment" to be brought down in his last message today. I assume he wants to sneak them back in with him and we are having no part of that. They knew the first time dad came when he called that he would have asked for fags as they asked dad and he told them yes he had given him 20 and they took them away.

Thanks for the replies I did feel awful but when he rings tomorrow I'm just gonna be honest and say if he wants help with anything else that's fine but dad will not be buying him fags or allowing him to smoke in his car. I've gone out and got the damn things out of the car and thrown them in the bin.
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Old 22-12-2016, 20:59
netcurtains
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The poor man, addiction is a bitch but he cannot put your dads life or the people in the care home's life at risk by smoking while on the oxygen tank. I think your dad is just going to have to say no, especially in the car, it's just too dangerous.
Could he see his gp about nicotene patches or champix, he might be suitable for some kind of NRT to ease his cravings.
I know it will seem perverse to some people reading this who will think the man a fool to want to carry on smoking despite his inability to breath unaided but he's probably pretty miserable and stressed after months in hospital and that will want him to smoke more as will the fact he's not supposed to, it's like craving a bacon sarnie when you're on a diet but to be craving something addictive is even worse.
But no your dad is going to have to be strong and not let him smoke in enclosed spaces.
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Old 22-12-2016, 21:10
marieukxx
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The poor man, addiction is a bitch but he cannot put your dads life or the people in the care home's life at risk by smoking while on the oxygen tank. I think your dad is just going to have to say no, especially in the car, it's just too dangerous.
Could he see his gp about nicotene patches or champix, he might be suitable for some kind of NRT to ease his cravings.
I know it will seem perverse to some people reading this who will think the man a fool to want to carry on smoking despite his inability to breath unaided but he's probably pretty miserable and stressed after months in hospital and that will want him to smoke more as will the fact he's not supposed to, it's like craving a bacon sarnie when you're on a diet but to be craving something addictive is even worse.
But no your dad is going to have to be strong and not let him smoke in enclosed spaces.

I've said that to dad, he needs something to help him with his cravings. He was also an alcoholic and smoked weed ever since we've known him. He would function normally and was good to us as kids. He's come off the weed and the booze and it must be so hard for him. I nearly cried when he was pleading. His daughter who lives up country is supposed to be coming down for christmas to see him. The rest of his family some of which live in town don't speak to him. Hopefully she can get him some help.

Tbh the residantial home is pretty rubbish. He said they are horrible to him, dad said his room was stinking. He's just got out of hospital and supposed to be there until he gets back on his feet. He has a place but can't manage alone. His two dogs have been rehomed and he always doted on his dogs. Maybe if I ring the home they may help with getting him something for his cravings? I'm not family though so whether they will talk to me about it I don't know.
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Old 22-12-2016, 21:38
hugsie
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Tell him your father's car is off the road.
It takes the pressure off of your dad.
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Old 23-12-2016, 19:02
netcurtains
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I've said that to dad, he needs something to help him with his cravings. He was also an alcoholic and smoked weed ever since we've known him. He would function normally and was good to us as kids. He's come off the weed and the booze and it must be so hard for him. I nearly cried when he was pleading. His daughter who lives up country is supposed to be coming down for christmas to see him. The rest of his family some of which live in town don't speak to him. Hopefully she can get him some help.

Tbh the residantial home is pretty rubbish. He said they are horrible to him, dad said his room was stinking. He's just got out of hospital and supposed to be there until he gets back on his feet. He has a place but can't manage alone. His two dogs have been rehomed and he always doted on his dogs. Maybe if I ring the home they may help with getting him something for his cravings? I'm not family though so whether they will talk to me about it I don't know.
He's lost the company of his two dogs too, poor bloke. I hope his situation improves and he can some help from his GP and can get back home soon.
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Old 23-12-2016, 19:54
CBFreak
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As long as your dad keeps supplying he's always going to be ringing
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Old 23-12-2016, 20:07
gilesb
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May he be able to find some pleasure in an electric cigarette?
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Old 23-12-2016, 20:19
marieukxx
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Dad isn't gonna get him anymore now. Yeah he's always had dogs as ong as I remember, always cared so well for them. They got rehomed when he was in hospital. Such a shame. It's sad situation as he's stuck in there with nothing, just in his room with a small tv. We are happy to have him over and take him there and back and things but we don't want him smoking with his oxygen on around us. He says it's too cold outside.
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Old 23-12-2016, 21:10
netcurtains
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Dad isn't gonna get him anymore now. Yeah he's always had dogs as ong as I remember, always cared so well for them. They got rehomed when he was in hospital. Such a shame. It's sad situation as he's stuck in there with nothing, just in his room with a small tv. We are happy to have him over and take him there and back and things but we don't want him smoking with his oxygen on around us. He says it's too cold outside.
Stay firm Marie, you don't want to be blowing yourselves up this xmas!
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Old 23-12-2016, 22:12
Pink_Smurf
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OK yes he's had a hard time, he's been in hospital, lost his dogs, can only walk a short distance and doesn't like where he lives. I get that but smoking around the oxygen in your dad's car and around the other residents is not just dangerous it's very selfish too. If he can barely breathe he shouldn't be smoking anyway. He needs help from a pharmacist or doctor for help to stop smoking. My local chemist does "Stop Smoking" programmes with patches to help fight the cravings. He knows it's dangerous but does it anyway. I agree with the FM who said to fib and say the car is off the road. If he does blow the car up it could or most likely would kill someone including him.
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Old 23-12-2016, 22:20
mistygal
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The addiction needs treating. How can anyone expect a person to go cold turkey with no help. No need to get all political in this story, although the man needs to accept that it is a choice to live or die. It's a long day living in a care home.
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Old 24-12-2016, 09:40
molliepops
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I wonder if patches might help him, I really feel sorry for him what has he got to live for no family, no dogs and they are taking his cigarettes away from him. He needs to be helped to decide if he wants or indeed can get better or if this is end of life care why stop him smoking now ? Ok safety but it must be possible to allow him a smoke safely. I know we did when my mum was at her end, we'd leave the oxygen inside and wheel her out the back for a quick smoke then back in on the oxygen. It was all she wanted and we felt cruel not letting her.
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Old 24-12-2016, 14:24
Jells Bells
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If he needs to smoke and insists on it he must must must remove the oxygen which I assume is up his nose first!
Of course he's not supposed to remove it but he's not supposed to smoke either is he?!
I imagine at this point the damage is done quite frankly - but not blowing himself or others up is now a priority.
My aunt did not and burnt her face half off. Slight exaggeration but it was horrendous. Definitely do not sit in a car with him doing it!!
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Old 24-12-2016, 15:51
Pink_Smurf
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If he needs to smoke and insists on it he must must must remove the oxygen which I assume is up his nose first!
Of course he's not supposed to remove it but he's not supposed to smoke either is he?!
I imagine at this point the damage is done quite frankly - but not blowing himself or others up is now a priority.
My aunt did not and burnt her face half off. Slight exaggeration but it was horrendous. Definitely do not sit in a car with him doing it!!
Exactly. It's dangerous.
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Old 24-12-2016, 16:06
Mr Dos
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Can one of you 'experts' explain how oxygen is inflammable, how the tank can explode etc. Oxygen in the air is consumed when an item is on fire. Pure oxygen can make something already alight, burn faster. It cannot, by itself, catch fire or explode. Oxygen does not burn - that would be oxygen reacting with oxygen.

Some cylinders contain gases that can catch fire or explode eg propane, Calor gas (propane and butane mix). How many of you have used a portable gas heater - a heat source and a cylinder of explosive gas - without a care in the world ?

This guy with his fag blowing up the care home is a bit far-fetched.
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Old 24-12-2016, 17:04
marieukxx
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If he needs to smoke and insists on it he must must must remove the oxygen which I assume is up his nose first!
Of course he's not supposed to remove it but he's not supposed to smoke either is he?!
I imagine at this point the damage is done quite frankly - but not blowing himself or others up is now a priority.
My aunt did not and burnt her face half off. Slight exaggeration but it was horrendous. Definitely do not sit in a car with him doing it!!
He cannot breath at all without it apparantly so to take it off for a smoke is impossible. Well that's what he's told dad and I'm no expert. Not long back he wasn't on it all the time and was off with dad to a club house they go to playing pool. He's taken this turn and had months in hospital and is now on it all the time. Before he had nebulisers and then the oxygen at home.
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Old 24-12-2016, 17:06
marieukxx
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Can one of you 'experts' explain how oxygen is inflammable, how the tank can explode etc. Oxygen in the air is consumed when an item is on fire. Pure oxygen can make something already alight, burn faster. It cannot, by itself, catch fire or explode. Oxygen does not burn - that would be oxygen reacting with oxygen.

Some cylinders contain gases that can catch fire or explode eg propane, Calor gas (propane and butane mix). How many of you have used a portable gas heater - a heat source and a cylinder of explosive gas - without a care in the world ?

This guy with his fag blowing up the care home is a bit far-fetched.
That's not what the care home told dad and he said there are signs up saying that. They won't even keep the cigarettes for him and give him one to go outside and smoke it. They destroyed them. Also before he was origiinally given the oxygen tank he was refused for a long time because he smoked. They told him it was too dangerous.

http://blastmagazine.com/2010/02/02/...n-and-smoking/
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Old 24-12-2016, 20:47
Jells Bells
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Oxygen is indeed not flammable. How very as you say it does make things already alight burn significantly (really significantly) faster. For example - a lit cigarette and any tiny embers that fly off.
My husband installed and delivered oxygen cylinders and concentrators for many years and is something of an expert - I can assure you smoking with one on is an enormous no no. It will certainly not explode every time but one day it will catch you out.
They are not just saying it for the sake of it.

We had an exciting incident one morning when my partners van with 20+ oxygen cylinders was parked in the lay by and a van was tootling along and the petrol tank sprung a leak and the escaping fuel ignited and there was literally a stream of fire trickling down the road and under the oxygen filled van. Fire engine came and smashed the doors in to prevent heat build up and said if the van had gone up it would have taken out the whole village.....
My aunts face was covered in horrendous blisters and burns for months after the incident with hers.

They are not replacements for ventilators however - he will be able to breathe without it, just badly!
I would suggest it's his choice - he's clearly being bloody minded about it - if it were me I'd make sure was fully aware of the risks, and then stand well back. Definitely definitely definitely not in a car with him!!!
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Old 25-12-2016, 10:18
DigitalSpyUser
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Can one of you 'experts' explain how oxygen is inflammable, how the tank can explode etc. Oxygen in the air is consumed when an item is on fire. Pure oxygen can make something already alight, burn faster. It cannot, by itself, catch fire or explode. Oxygen does not burn - that would be oxygen reacting with oxygen.

Some cylinders contain gases that can catch fire or explode eg propane, Calor gas (propane and butane mix). How many of you have used a portable gas heater - a heat source and a cylinder of explosive gas - without a care in the world ?

This guy with his fag blowing up the care home is a bit far-fetched.
Pure oxygen is highly combustible. Don't forget air is a mixture of lots of gases, the main one being nitrogen, which is an inert gas. Oxygen is at a much lower concentration than the oxygen in the tanks, which is pure oxygen, not air.
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Old 25-12-2016, 20:16
molliepops
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Unless he's on a ventilator he can breath without it, but he needs it as much as possible I would suggest. If he's smoking it won't do him any good anyway as the smoke is affecting his lungs each time he has one.

But if smoking is all he has as I said earlier if is cruel IMO to try and make him stop because the damage has already been done.
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Old 26-12-2016, 07:15
grumpyscot
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May he be able to find some pleasure in an electric cigarette?
The glow of the thing plus oxygen = big bang, big fire, big regret.
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Old 26-12-2016, 09:20
Jells Bells
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The glow of the thing plus oxygen = big bang, big fire, big regret.
I'm not quite so sure about that - what if you walk past a light bulb?
Although the advice is not to I would imagine it would be significantly less risky.
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