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Freeview in 2017 what is coming?


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Old 26-12-2016, 18:38
Mark C
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You've omitted the accompanying text from the Ofcom report that diagram is sourced from

Refer to Page 42, A2.6

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/asse...-Statement.pdf
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Old 26-12-2016, 18:40
clewsy
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But again these chat clearly work and get viewers, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Your right that we have many similar channels, bit the niche ones seem to struggle to afford the carriage fees.
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Old 26-12-2016, 20:21
misar
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We seem to be heading towards more quantity and less quality.
Not heading towards, we have been there for several years.
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Old 27-12-2016, 12:38
PhilH36
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If the EPG shows more than five channels then the news channels aren't a sufficient buffer.
Between Kix and TVX there are four news channels plus the "content for over 18's only" slate on CH170. That's a five channel buffer, how much more do you want?
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:47
zeebre12
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Didnt Viacom say that they wouldnt launch a specific Milkshake channel? It would also have to compliment the existing pay kids channels, maybe first run content on pay and then repeats on Milkshake? How does it work currently between Milkshake and Nickleodeon kids channels? Also the UK kids market seems to saturated with 16 kids channels available..
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Old Yesterday, 00:37
tvmad-alan
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I feel that the DTT network belongs to the public for TV services and any changes that take away space which leads to higher prices for TV companies which then put less money to new shows is wrong in so many ways.

We need space to allow the UK to give local and national TV channels along with them being in SD, HD or even UHD in years to come.

We do not have 100% cover in the UK with all muxes so it has lead to poor TV area in some places.

I would also say that the MUX power levels are too low to allow pocket sizes portable TV for DTT service.

DTT started with 6 muxes and not all of the UK got that and even with COM 7 & 8 some areas still only have 3 muxes.

I feel that space would also allow TV companies to push out better images & sound with bandwidth less limited to each channel on a mux if we had ten or more.

The reason that COM 8 is not full is that it not in all TV area and are weaker power then most other muxes so TV companies are less likely to put money into COM 8 as advert are going be lower as less people see COM 8. Also remember that only HD TV turners can pick up that mux and we still have many boxes and TV that can not pick up HD muxes in the UK.


As for 2017 I hope and wishes that Freeview / DTT/ National TV service becomes a real TV service that all area of the UK get all muxes and channels in SD HD and test for UHD too .
The EPG gets a full change to allow sister channels to be blocked together and HD to be also mixed together with SD & +1 channels so we get SD +1 HD in that order.

Yes I would like to see more HD along with SD.
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Old Yesterday, 09:46
kev
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I feel that the DTT network belongs to the public for TV services and any changes that take away space which leads to higher prices for TV companies which then put less money to new shows is wrong in so many ways.
Fewer multiplexes for a similar number of services means reduced costs for the broadcasters (as the infrastructure costs less).

We do not have 100% cover in the UK with all muxes so it has lead to poor TV area in some places.
We've never had 100% coverage - IIRC 98.5% was the official analogue service area. Freesat was launched specifically to address this issue. Of course it would help if there was parity between Freeview and Freesat. I dare say that if the COM multiplexes had been mandated the same 98.5% coverage of the PSB ones most commercial channels wouldn't have been launched and all Freeview and Freesat viewers would be worse off as the multiplexes wouldn't exist.

I would also say that the MUX power levels are too low to allow pocket sizes portable TV for DTT service.
Well the network was intentionally planned for rooftop reception.

DTT started with 6 muxes and not all of the UK got that and even with COM 7 & 8 some areas still only have 3 muxes.
90% of the population can be served with 80 sites, more than another 1000 sites are required for the next 8.5% of the population. 76% of the population are served with the low power COM7/8 multiplex from even fewer sites. There are diminishing returns as you add more sites. 200 sites were cleared for the COM multiplex but the 120 extra ones have never been used (aside from one multiplex at Ferryside, and one temporary multiplex at Whitehaven prior to the main switchover commenced).

I feel that space would also allow TV companies to push out better images & sound with bandwidth less limited to each channel on a mux if we had ten or more.
If anything increasing the costs would drive the quality even lower to ensure the costs are shared between more broadcasters.

The reason that COM 8 is not full is that it not in all TV area and are weaker power then most other muxes so TV companies are less likely to put money into COM 8 as advert are going be lower as less people see COM 8.
Population coverage is similar to pre-DSO Freeview - the bigger issue with COM8 for non-HD channels is that it requires Freeview HD equipment for the viewers to see. There doesn't appear to be any other HD channels willing to go FTA either.


As for 2017 I hope and wishes that Freeview / DTT/ National TV service becomes a real TV service that all area of the UK get all muxes and channels in SD HD and test for UHD too .
The EPG gets a full change to allow sister channels to be blocked together and HD to be also mixed together with SD & +1 channels so we get SD +1 HD in that order.

Yes I would like to see more HD along with SD.
Alas that's very unlikely due to the rules in place and the likes of CBS Channel 5 etc crying foul if there channels are junked down the EPG. I don't think ITV would be impressed being on LCN 4 or Channel 5 on 11 for instance - as your suggestion would be:-
1. BBC ONE SD
2. BBC ONE HD
3. BBC TWO SD
4. BBC TWO HD
5. ITV-1 SD
6. ITV-1 +1 SD
7. ITV-1 HD
8. Channel 4 SD
8. Channel 4 + 1 SD
9. Channel 4 HD
10. Channel 4 +1 HD
11. Channel 5 SD

Ideally HD simulcasts should be way down the EPG on SD EPGS (although in reality they would be missing) with the simulcasts doing channel number swaps on HD equipment. (i.e. effectively the SD simulcasts are way down the EPG).

A tidier and more logical layout would be:-
0xx = HD Variant
1xx = +1 Variant
6xx = SD Variant

e.g. 003 = ITV 1 HD, 103 = ITV 1 +1 SD, 603 = ITV 1 SD

However with the differing coverage of some multiplexes it would need viewers to be able to "prefer SD" of some of the HD channels and that isn't part of the spec.... (e.g. when on BBC Four HD pressing Blue would show "Switch to SD, and Prefer SD Always".
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Old Yesterday, 09:59
Think TV
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I feel that the DTT network belongs to the public for TV services and any changes that take away space which leads to higher prices for TV companies which then put less money to new shows is wrong in so many ways.

We need space to allow the UK to give local and national TV channels along with them being in SD, HD or even UHD in years to come.

We do not have 100% cover in the UK with all muxes so it has lead to poor TV area in some places.

I would also say that the MUX power levels are too low to allow pocket sizes portable TV for DTT service ....

The reason that COM 8 is not full is that it not in all TV area and are weaker power then most other muxes so TV companies are less likely to put money into COM 8 as advert are going be lower as less people see COM 8. Also remember that only HD TV turners can pick up that mux and we still have many boxes and TV that can not pick up HD muxes in the UK.


As for 2017 I hope and wishes that Freeview / DTT/ National TV service becomes a real TV service that all area of the UK get all muxes and channels in SD HD and test for UHD too .
The EPG gets a full change to allow sister channels to be blocked together and HD to be also mixed together with SD & +1 channels so we get SD +1 HD in that order.

Yes I would like to see more HD along with SD.
To pick up from this recent post, at the moment, COM7 and COM8 have to fit in the area of spectrum left behind from the digital dividend (but not the 800MHz area, but the 600MHz). With changes and ultimate sell off in the 700MHz band all multiplexes are to be positioned between 470 and 690 MHz, i.e. UHF channels 21 - 47 including reusing the current 600 MHz space, (channels 31 to 39), and potentiall use of the band gap for DTT on channels 54 and 55. All transmitters including relays will need to be reconfigured, especially those in the 700MHz space but not for muxes that are situated on channels 21 - 30, which affect Crystal Palace, Sandy Heath and Rowridge to name a few.

Unfortunately, since it was decided around 2008, that relays will only transmit PSB muxes, this is likely to remain and those who have equipment that only can receive SD/DVB-T/MPEG2 channels, can only receive 2 muxes, with BBC B/PSB3 using DVB-T2 spec.

The future, as started from this week, all new SD/DVB-T cannot use the Freeview logo. This is to drive sales for DVB-T2 equipment which ultimately after 2022 all muxes will be using this spec along with a MPEG2 and MPEG4 mix of channels which drives SD and HD channels. Only time will tell, if there is a demand for delivering UHD over DTT. It is strongly likely, unlike for HD, that UHD will be delivered only via the Internet(OTT), like the BBC iPlayer trial with Planet Earth II footage. UHD alongside VR, will be predominantly Internet driven, but this change for the DTT spectrum will happen late 2020s and early 2030s. The immediate issue is removing DTT from 700 MHz and to ensure, and drive sales of Freeview Play devices including recorders.

Driving sales for Freeview Play equipment rather than Freeview HD, means the added feature for viewers of apps like BBC iPlayer and All4 and the neat feature of 7 day backward view of the EPG. Therefore, the future, is to have all channels that have an IPTV channel supporting to rewind back 7 days of catalogued programmes. This will help viewers that even they can't remember the programme name, the viewer can use the info button to find out about the programme off chance. This is what I feel the BBC has lost with BBC3. They could have potentially held on LCN7 but used it as an IPTV delivered channel like for 200 sectioned channel. Saying that, BBC3 could return to our screens on LCN260 for example, where the viewer can watch a stream of BBC3 programmes. As we're coming up to a year off no linear BBC3, it would be interesting to see the ratings, as opposed to the trend of the linear service if it was to be retained in 2016 by comparing rating figures in 2015. (Ultimately, BBC3 linear service closure was financially driven not technology driven bur you didn't hear me say that )

Like tvmad-alan was saying, an EPG reshuffle is coming, with the result of the recent Digital UK consultation, that closes tomorrow, Friday 6th January. But +1 channels will be used as a placeholders with Digital UK cracking down ensuring that they must run at least 14 hours a week or 2 hours a day, see section of 4.2 if interested to know more: http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/as...tober_2016.pdf

Regarding multiplex UHF (ERP) power they are all high power but lower than analogue transmission. Unfortunately, nothing can be done about this but the change to DVB-T2 for all muxes may improve the robustness of reception for viewers in geographically weak areas from the main or relay transmitter or to change the SNR, potential FEC change for a PSB mux. Regarding channels, I would like to see more frequency sharing such as Single Frequency Network (SFN) used with Lark Stoke, Bromsgrove transmitters in the midlands. See here for more technical details: http://www.aerialsandtv.com/nationwi...quencyNetworks

In summary, 2017 will see:
Freeview Play heavily driven for sales
EPG reshuffle
Start of 700 MHz rollout change of frequency to the 600MHz space (or other location for the mux)- due to finish in 2021 (nicknamed DSO2)
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Old Yesterday, 10:57
gianni
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To drive Freeview Play, manufacturers need to deliver more low(er) cost compelling products.

My research suggests that only Humax (FVP4000T x 2) and Panasonic (DMR-HWTxxx x 2) offer stand alone STBs with Freeview Play capability - all of them in the £180-£220 range. The interweb is full of appalling experiences of the reliability of the Humax which may or may not be valid but certainly discourage me.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21
ney
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I feel that the DTT network belongs to the public for TV services and any changes that take away space which leads to higher prices for TV companies which then put less money to new shows is wrong in so many ways.

We need space to allow the UK to give local and national TV channels along with them being in SD, HD or even UHD in years to come.

We do not have 100% cover in the UK with all muxes so it has lead to poor TV area in some places.

I would also say that the MUX power levels are too low to allow pocket sizes portable TV for DTT service.

DTT started with 6 muxes and not all of the UK got that and even with COM 7 & 8 some areas still only have 3 muxes.

I feel that space would also allow TV companies to push out better images & sound with bandwidth less limited to each channel on a mux if we had ten or more.

The reason that COM 8 is not full is that it not in all TV area and are weaker power then most other muxes so TV companies are less likely to put money into COM 8 as advert are going be lower as less people see COM 8. Also remember that only HD TV turners can pick up that mux and we still have many boxes and TV that can not pick up HD muxes in the UK.


As for 2017 I hope and wishes that Freeview / DTT/ National TV service becomes a real TV service that all area of the UK get all muxes and channels in SD HD and test for UHD too .
The EPG gets a full change to allow sister channels to be blocked together and HD to be also mixed together with SD & +1 channels so we get SD +1 HD in that order.

Yes I would like to see more HD along with SD.
I agree with some of what you say in that more areas of the UK should get all MUX.
I have been up to the Perth area a few times and for the size of the town of Perth it only gets the Freeview lite service from a Perth rely transmitter that's linked to the main Angus transmitter 20mins or so east in the Dundee area.
I know the Perth area has a few hills but the likes of that area could be doing with better Freeview coverage. Give the size of the town of Perth.
Some +1 cannels are ok but some others are a waste of space.
I would welcome more HD versions of channels and 2 or 3 more SD channels as long as they are not part time channels.
Hope the sound on some of the SD channels will also be improved at some point.
I use the Youview platform but also have BT TV.I also have Freeview HD built in to my 2 Samsung full HD smart TVs. My sister uses Youview also only as a Freeview PVR and for the catch up players.
I don't know if Freeview Play has improved since it first came out but I did read mixed reviews about the service.

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Old Yesterday, 12:13
chrisy
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Originally Posted by ney
Like tvmad-alan was saying, an EPG reshuffle is coming, with the result of the recent Digital UK consultation, that closes tomorrow, Friday 6th January. But +1 channels will be used as a placeholders with Digital UK cracking down ensuring that they must run at least 14 hours a week or 2 hours a day, see section of 4.2 if interested to know more: http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/as...tober_2016.pdf
Just thought that was worth highlighting in case people want to get their views in.
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Old Yesterday, 14:37
ntscuser
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As for 2017 I hope and wishes that Freeview / DTT/ National TV service becomes a real TV service that all area of the UK get all muxes and channels in SD HD and test for UHD too .
One thing we know for certain is that will not happen. It will be 2020 at the earliest and will require a change in transmission standards before Freeview Lite areas receive any extra channels at all, if they ever do.
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