But a one-state solution doesn't make any sense for Israel. Due to demographics etc, the Arab popularion is growing much faster than the Jewish population. If a single state is formed, with everyone having the same rights, eventually it will cease to be a Jewish state - as the Arab/Muslim population will outgrow the Jewish population and become a majority. That's why the Israelis need to cut a deal pretty sharpish - although many suggest the window for a two-state solution may already be closed.

No but almost the rest of the world does.

The occupying power can build what it likes for defensive needs,

And in this case its not been claimed through conquest. It will be granted by the eventual peace treaty. The war only ends when both sides agree to a peace deal, but, there's no united Palestinian Side to sign one, and the Israelis won't agree to one that doesn't leave their bigger settlements intact, or give them secure borders. . At the moment, there's no peace deal, and anyone that there is, will include most settlements remaining. The latest UN resolution just confuses the issue by not specifying new settlements that are untenable in new areas , or old ones that will remain anyway.

The whole things is nonsense - as the Palestinians don't want a settlement - they are split , and the militant wing would kill anyone else who signed an agreement. And israel isn't going to repeat the mistake of withdrawing from Gaza - only to see it turned into a hostile missile, and tunnelling base.

The west keeps on pushing for a settlement, and the moslem states join in to attack Israel for domestic public opinion, , but the reality is that no one in the region - apart from Iran - wants an independent Palestinian state - because everyone - from Egypt to the Gulf states , sees it as a terrorist threat to them too.

And the basic principle of not taking territory by force is pretty dodgy anyway. If it was generally enforced, Russia would have to give back big chunks of Finland , Japan and Eastern Europe, China Tibet and parts of India, and you would have to look at all the other moved borders too. Its not a princple many big states could see enforced.

As a slightly irrelevant sidebar, has Netanyahu started dying his hair? I saw a statement he made on the news and his barnet looked darker and browner than usual.

And why would the Palestinians ever agree to such a deal? Would Israel seriously consider a territory swap?

Israel doesn't want a 2 state solution, it wants a 1 state solution - but without Palestinians.

So until they come up with a magic way to get rid of all the Palestinians they are stuck with the mess of their own creation.

So houses are defensive? In this case, they're more political & simply squatting land.

That's a challenge Israel has to face regardless, ie non-Jewish Israelis.

Often quoted but innacurate; Judaism certainly faces a challenge with "marrying out" and I should know, having done precisely that. However, such challenges move at a glacial rate, measured in centuries not decades.

There are plenty of Jews in Israel, multiplying fast in a state that's only the size of Wales.

People confuse this issue with Israelis status as a jewish, secular, democratic state amongst a sea of hostile Muslim states; that's certainly an issue but it has ever been thus and frankly, it's seen far tougher challenges than are present today.

As I've said elsewhere, those who believe Israel is about to be swallowed up by an Arab sea, or by Russian nuclear attack, or whatever are indulging in a weird form of fantasy porn.

I am really pleased about this. It won't make a bit of difference as that arsehole Trump will ignore it. Israel shoild be classified as rogue state. It is no better than Saudi or Qatar.

Netanyahu threatening the UN like a two-bit African despot certainly adds to the impression.

Ignoring UN resolutions, possessing weapons of mass destruction usually puts a country high on the list for regime change, but of course we are talking about the land of gods chosen people.

Like many things in life, it's.. complicated.. And something Netanyahu's talked about regularly. One complication is defining population borders, ie birth rates within Israel vs occupied territory/'Palestine'. Headline figures seem roughly equal between Jews and non-Jews, but drilling down shows the greatest birthrate amongst the Ashkenazi Haredim and Negev Beduin-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel

But population increase via natural birthrate or Aliyah puts pressure on housing, and given Israel's housing policy, creates social/political problems. Plus potential for rising emigration, especially if there are job or housing shortages and any recession/inflationary pressures. In some respects, Israel's a victim of it's success with younger Israelis being well educated, more secular in outlook and mobile.. Which also typically translates into lower birthrates with career women who are encouraged to work.

Except in the Haredim communities, which are growing fastest but devote themselves to study, which then creates it's own potential demographic time bomb and has been creating challenges for the IDF, ie problems with conscripting Haredim who can claim religious exemption.


Yup, especially the Russian thing given nearly 50% of Israelis have Russian origins.. But then the US's calculated snub may just push Israel closer to Russia.

It certainly exposes Israel as the isolationist state it really is. Paranoid as well when you look at Natahyahu's history with the Obama administration.

No wonder he gave him (and Trump) the middle finger on his way out.

Bang on.

Another point and message for people on this thread talking about Israel being a "rogue/isolationist state"; grow up. The "problem" is Netanyahu and he's the product (as Trump is the product) of domestic paranoia.

In the case of the USA it's mostly just that; a reaction to post truth facts, globalisation etc. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you, and Israel is a case in point.

Years of anti semitism, "anti Zionism",rejected peace plans, empty threats of imminent destruction, lies and abuse tells and here we are, with a "right wing" government. Big surprise.

Well, I'm on the Baileys now so a merry Christmas to all...

I dont think this is an Obama alone decision.
Its the CIA . how can they carry on criticising Russia over Chechnya and China over the south China sea and yet veto criticism of Israel.
Land grab is just that no matter who is involved.
I believe Israel has the right to exist as off the 1948 UN mandate but having said that there would be one awful crush to go back to that at present.

Bibi has a major hissy fit

has morocco given the spanish sahara back.
or has turkey given north cyprus back. i could mention other countries like russia but they dont get the attention like israel does.
so in fact lots of nations have extra land territory and israel was attacked twice and got this land by war it did not start. so maybe thats why it has to keep some for security and for other purposes.
israel is a democracy and was attacked invaded twice so it had to act defensively.

Israel did start the six day war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Focus

Typically biased; you've linked to a specific operation, not the war.

See attached.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

It was a response to a mobilisation of Egyptian forces; an incredibly effective pre emptive strike.

Nasser then tricked Syria and Jordan (who Israel didn't attack) into the conflict by asserting that he'd defeated the Israeli Air Force when in fact, he'd been routed. Israel proceeded to rout them all.

Note the following;

"Further information: Preemptive war
At the commencement of hostilities, both Egypt and Israel announced that they had been attacked by the other country. The Israeli government later abandoned its initial position, acknowledging Israel had struck first, claiming that it was a preemptive strike in the face of a planned invasion by Egypt.On the other hand, the Arab view was that it was unjustified to attack Egypt.Many commentators consider the war as the classic case of anticipatory attack in self-defense."

http://www.dw.com/en/israel-defiant-...n-all-1573-rdf

Israel is looking likely to annex East Jerusalem and parts of the West Bank. Happy New Year indeed.

I think they're also problems of their generation.. But the new generation may be more pragmatic.


Yup. The US is a bit different, ie globalisation has very much been a problem. Especially if you look at places like Detroit and it's population collapse. Israel could suffer the same problems.


Netanyahu's always been a bit.. special. But demonstrates the old political adage that you don't have to please all the people all the time, just enough to form a government. Challenge for Israel will be winning any peace that comes out of Syria.


To peace, and a prosperous new year!

After WW2, acquiring land through military conquest or invasion was made illegal. Therefore Israel has no legal claim to the land, hence why these settlements are illegal.

Secondly, as has been pointed out, Israel started the 6 day war. If I wasn't posting on my phone, I would provide links to quotss from senior Israeli politicians nd military leaders confirming this.

Thirdly, settlements in the West Bank are not security related. They are part of an ongoing process of stealing land in order to prevent a viable two state solution.

It would seem Israel and New Zealand are now at war?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...aration-of-war

Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly told New Zealand’s foreign minister that support for a UN resolution condemning Israeli settlement-building in the occupied territories would be viewed as a “declaration of war”.

According to reports in Israeli media, the Israeli PM called Murray McCully, the foreign minister of New Zealand, before Friday’s resolution, which was co-sponsored by Wellington. Netanyahu told him: “This is a scandalous decision. I’m asking that you not support it and not promote it.

“If you continue to promote this resolution, from our point of view it will be a declaration of war. It will rupture the relations and there will be consequences. We’ll recall our ambassador [from New Zealand] to Jerusalem.”

Jesus, the world's fooked if trump is the saner one. Is NZ glowing from a nuclear attack or has Bibi told God to smite them.