And Israel has repeatedly offered huge concessions only to have them refused.



I wonder why they're more 'isolationist' than most, surrounded by enemies and being physically attacked by some of their neighbours.

Eh no.

Lies about WMD work that way, not actually possessing them. Just look at North Korea.

Weird that Israel is throwing a tantrum, and both Netanyahu and Trump are dismissive of the UN.

Yet when axis-of-evil countries defy the UN, they are called "rogue states" and sanctions are swiftly imposed

Trump has actually threatened to cut the budget sent to the UN over this.

The resolution was fairly daft as lit does put the whole peace on a knife edge and Israel would never accept it

So why didn't Israel's friends veto it?

As for Bibi, he's more interested in being the next Putin than making Israel better.

If the Arabs didnt want to loose land they had no right to occupy in the first place then they really should not have started a war with Israel.

Which friends ? Maybe the others thought the usa would veto it

What?

Nah.. Dropping pictures of his wife all over New Zealand.. Anyone looking at them will be turned to stone.

Looks like 2017 will the year of the nutter...

colonial nations with usa and russia oppressing millions worldwide lecturing israel which won some small piece of land in a defensive war is kinda stupid. UN also gave people cholera in Haiti btw. israel shouldnt listen to any of these stupid nations

My thoughts exactly, I wonder how some of the supporters of Israel would feel had the UN decided that England was the 'promised land' promised to the Jewish people by God himself, so the English will have to move out to allow the chosen ones to move in?

The only way this is ever going to be settled is around a negotiating table, and both sides will need to compromise,
continuing to occupy land that is not theirs is far from a compromise, when almost the entire world says you are wrong and even many of your own people say you are wrong, then the chances are...

Anyone else follow Melanie Phillips on Twitter?, ever since the vote she's going near crazy.
I thought this was just about the UN confirming illegal settlements were illegal.

Why would they vote for the resolution? The result of these votes is decided well before the vote is taken.

I see BTW that Bibi, like many of his predecessors, has come to the attention of the police for various bits of dodginess.

Then you should read her open lettter to Tessie and educate yourself.

http://melaniephillips.com/open-letter-theresa-may/

Melanie Phillips is a fanatic and ultimately no friend of Israel. A true friend tells you if you're behaving recklessly and foolishly, not just slavishly back you and facilitate your mistakes.

I can see an argument for Israel keeping hold of the occupied territories while it is surrounded by hostile nations that wish to see its distruction. That land provides a security buffer and can be used as a bartering tool in negotiations with Israel's enemies. But I just can't see how the Israelis can defend building settlements all the time. It simply changes the situation on the ground and makes a peace deal harder to achieve.

I have huge sympathy for Israel, a liberal democracy in a hostile neighbourhood, but the settlements just seem to me to be folly of the highest order.

its all going to be ok when the donald takes over. he is israels friend and not a united nations fan.so so he will change these polices and importantly stop the chaotic mess of american foreign policy over the last generation.

Hardly a "fanatic", just another alt right. As I'm sure you're aware she started on the left and yes, she's worked her way to the opposite poll.

I'm no fan at all of her wider politics (particularly her views on gay rights and global warming) but necessity makes strange bedfellows. I've made this point elsewhere; Israel is being pushed politically ever to the right by the type of lies and political posturing to which her linked article refers. The fact is that like a a broken clock, even Phillips will be right twice a day, so I won't apologise for quoting her and many of the points made in her linked article are uncontravertably true.

I actually agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph but Israel can hardly use the territories as a bargaining chip, for as long as the Palestinians are set on blowing up the casino.

Truth is, I feel rather grubby in the knowedge that there is a single policy on which I'll be cheering Trump on but I'm afraid this is it.

Yes, but there is a world of difference between occupying the disputed land, under the understanding you will negotiate its eventual return, and endlessly building new settlements. How does the expansion of settlements help anyone wanting peace?

Also, I appreciate only Nixon could go to China but if you're hoping for Trump to achieve Middle East peace, I fear you're in for a tremendous disappointment.

I don't think Israel does itself any favours by pursuing this policy and I'd much rather that it didn't. It's a right wing policy, the product of decade after decade of unjustified, dishonest attacks (literal and metaphorical) on the right of the Jewish state to exist. Viewed in that way, neither it nor the fact that such a government is in situ, is any surprise at all.

I think Trump has zero chance of achieving peace in the Middle East, or much of anything else for that matter. But he'll provide Israel with the support it requires and that, I'm afraid, is where we're currently at.

Melanie Phillips is unlistenable on this subject.

I still don't know who these friends arw

seems so, i have a feeling she wants Israel to claim all that land it used to have.

But.. that's always been the challenge. So what is Israel? This?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon#...el_830_map.svg

Which might show a pre-unification/conquest historical land. Or this-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdo...l_1020_map.svg

Post-conquest and what some Israeli's want to claim. Or this-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel...sions_1947.jpg

the '47 Partition Plan. Or something based on post-'67 Six Day War gains with some horse trading.

But the problem is there currently is no map showing internationally agreed/recognised borders for Israel. Hence the UN posturing and legal wrangling over settlements in occupied territory, which effectively annex that territory. Which then leads to resentment, politicing and killings by all sides because the lines are in the wrong place. And even within Israel, there are arguments over scripture that may or may not define what land Eretz Yisrael should comprise. Especially as chunks of that land are currently occupied.

But that all feeds into the politics. Netanyahu is a hawk and needs support of Israeli right-wing groups. To play to that crowd, Israel needs to be tough/threatened/stronk. Plus property development has often been a feature in Israeli political scandals given the way most land is under state control.

Pragmatically, borders need to be defined. But defined in such a way that there's a viable 2-state solution that allows both states to function. Then that would leave political/religious issues around sacred places like Jerusalem given it's importance to all the Abrahamic religions. Or somehow, all the factions figure out how to get along and live together in a single state solution. Miko Peled's 'General's Son' is an interesting take on that approach.

Then there's Israel as a pawn/proxy for other sectarian conflicts. So other semitic states wanting to bash the Jews so they appear strong.. Which sometimes leads to odd situations, like Turkey occasionally threatening Israel, but buying tanks and weapons from it. Or current weirdness where Israel and Saudi/Sunni states may be co-operating more closely against a common enemy, Iran and the Shia.. Which gets really weird in places like Yemen, where we're allied with Saudi, and so are AQ who're fighting against the Houthi. But that politicing may end up with some kind of deal where the Saud's pressure their followers into agreeing a deal with Israel in exchange for support against Iran.. But there's no guarantee that that wouldn't result in the Saud's being toppled and a bigger mess created.

Then in a wider context, Trump will probably be gambling on switching some US Jewish support from their traditional Democrats to Republican, or Israel just drifting closer into Russia's sphere of influence. One bit of good news is Netanyahu's resisted temptation to 'mow the lawn' again in Gaza.. yet.

MP has been batshit crazy for years. When she was a Guardian columnist, her column was so bonkers that for a long time I thought it was a spoof .

Obama gave Israel massive support; not least billions of dollars in military aid each year. I think this UN vote has been overstated. Yes, Obama found Netanyahu a massive pain in the arse, but he still coughed up loads of money. He only let this (mostly symbolic) resolution pass as he was practically walking out of the door. Congress slavishly supports Israel on a bipartisan basis. But long-term I think Israel needs candid advice, not just a blank cheque.