Proper progressive thinking

And on top of the 'unemployment has better pay' problem there's the issue of getting people back into a 'with job' frame of mind - as seen on at least a couple of 'reality' programmes where they found that people who had been unemployed for a while needed time to get back into a defined routine. Plus the de-movitation etc but it's the routine thing that was half of it, the other half was not being in a house full of other people with the same routine to help 'sync' their day.

Of course if everyone has a degree then everyone is entitled to a nice clean desk job with a tea-trolley that comes round or if in management you get to stand around looking impressive and pointing at things on flipcharts.

Unless I have misunderstood and 'media studies' means 'watching the telly and reading the paper really studiously'?

So excellent news for British workers.

Less competition for jobs.
Fewer zero hours contracts
Higher wages
Better conditions

Yes what a disaster - firms won't be able to treat their staff so badly on the expectation that someone willing to work for lower wages and for worse conditions will be along in a minute.

And in reality people who have skills and qualifications we need will be allowed in - engineers, doctors etc. Skilled car washers perhaps not.

How did we not all starve before 2004.

Just a thought but if the education system isn't producing enough people with the right skills perhaps it needs changing so it does and I know it's a bit radical but perhaps even employers could be more interested in training their employees.

I think they now have coffee dispensers next to the condom dispensers. I think the art of being able to use a coffee vending gadget is something picked up at my doctor's surgery, where the drinking water dispenser is constantly invaded by two and three year olds who would threaten murder at home if their parents made them drink water instead Irn Bru, Coke or Bull's Piss.

How is any of that going to happen if we increase the costs on companies who do business in the UK, make it harder for them to export and make them uncompetitive against businesses in Europe.

You are more likely to see higher unemployment, lower tax take and public spending cuts as businesses move their operations offshore where it is cheaper, they have a bigger labour market to choose from and they will be part of the single market and customs union to make selling easier.

It's a betrayal by Government of the less well educated Brits. No space for them in the future workplace is there.

The government should provision work for everyone. EVERYONE

I work in an offshoot of IT. I am British, but a very large number of people that I work with are not from the UK - many are EU citizens, some are non-EU.

My employer (a very well known company)) is struggling to find competent staff *today*. Let alone post-Brexit when the potential job market shrinks.

I'm sure the Brexshitters will say "we want an immigration system that lets us choose who comes in" - great - but the fact is that people will be put off by dealing with visas and other crap - especially as the government progressively adds more and more hoops. Why fart about trying to get a UK visa when you can go and work freely in the EU? Or in a country that isn't actively trying to sabotage any non-native who wants to get on?

I have colleagues with non-EU citizenships who have been unable to travel internationally because their passports have been sitting somewhere in UK Visas and Immigration, I have others where the company has have to give them an impromptu pay rise or promotion to get around the government's rule changes regarding visas. Others still have had promotions denied for a similar reasons.

And no, my company doesn't want to hire dross (who just happen to be British) in an attempt to train them up - another Brexit fantasy. They already take on large numbers of apprentices every year (who actually show promise) and puts them through real apprenticeships leading to real jobs. They also seek lots of graduates, but given that a as a country we're trying to discourage foreign students (and the much higher tuition fees that they pay), they'll struggle here too. My company isn't going to hire people who got a third from Cambridge Ring Road University just because they have a British passport. They'll probably just offshore the work instead.

That said, I fear that cleaning agencies and farmers will have an even harder time finding staff. British people typically don't want to do that work as it is, especially not on the paltry pay and conditions typically offered.

So then the business fails. Survival of the fittest, isn't that what capitalism is?

Seems to me you want to protect business from the harsh realities of capitalism.

Yes, because allowing people to easily come and work here is protectionism - and the path to isolation and needless bureaucracy for trade is actually freedom.

Only in the mind of a Brexiter...

Just a tip for the writers of the article. 4 in 10 should really be expressed as 2 in 5. That's what I was always taught anyway, but then what does a maths graduate know about, um, maths, eh?

I really don't want the government deciding what job I should do and I don't want them deciding who businesses should employ.

But they already try to force you into employment, so the choice you think you have is pretty much an illusion.

It is a type of protectionism. Injecting new workers into the economy protects businesses from having to satisfy workers wage expectations.

You said it yourself, almost, by recognising Brits don't want to work for those wages so we need immigrants to solve the lack of workers. Like i said, Capitalism has an answer to when a business cannot attract workers from its own market place. i.e it fails.

That's what's suppose to happen

Too much choice can definitely be counterproductive, just look at the people who end up turning away perfectly viable partners because they feel they should wait for 'the one'. I think employers, when they have far too many applicants for positions, tend to do the same. They become extremely picky and often the things they use as the deciding factor are the easily judged things, rather than the most important ones. So they insist on ever higher grades, then start demanding more and more work experience, and so on.

They also become more complacent as well. It becomes all about what you can offer them, and not about what they can offer you in return.

I've never been forced into employment by the government and every job I've had has been my choice. Correction.... my parents did make me do a paper round when I was about 14 but I quit after a few weeks.

That's the best thing about the illusion of choice. You aren't aware it's an illusion.

All wanting to work for newspapers and TV companies when they are both shedding staff like no tomorrow.

Employment in the Creative Industries 2015
IT, software and computer services +33,000
Advertising and marketing +15,000
Museums, Galleries and Libraries +13,000
Publishing +7,000
Film, TV, video, radio and photography +3,000
Music, performing and visual arts +2,000
Crafts -1,000
Design and designer fashion -4,000
Architecture -11,000
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...n/key-findings

And when they do graduate they find that the employers who are still recruiting prefer people with degrees in more conventional subjects.

yeah well i have a money shortage, but im not turning to the government for support

why these so called self employed people get so much government assistance .. cheap labour, low taxes, low interest rates ..

it seems to me the latest problem is that theyve got too many customers, given that they cant find staff.

do this - raise prices, and youll have less customers ... problem solved.

Only clicked the thread to basically type this ^^. Didn't expect it to be post #2 though.

Many companies do, as practically every new employee requires training of some kind. They do prefer to hire people who have even a basic understanding of the thing they've been hired to do though, even if the specifics have to be learnt on the job

But please, do tell us how we're going to take someone who practically failed their GCSEs, who struggles to string a sentence together, and turn them into a doctor or engineer by having companies pay for years and years of training (and low productivity). Because that's the sort of people we're looking at here. The people who got on in life probably already found jobs even with those menacing foreigners being able to walk in and take them too.

Or, in the Brexit universe, are these the people who will gleefully jump into the fields and spend the rest of their days fruit picking?

Who did fruit picking prior to our EU membership?

whos problem is it if you cant find the right people to hire.

its your problem to solve.

Newsflash: this isn't the 1950s anymore. People have greater expectations when it comes to job hunting. I'm not about to pack my job in and go fruit picking, nor am I going to do so if I am made redundant. I quite like having a job that pays well for 12 months of the year, not poorly for a couple.

That's why it's dominated by seasonal workers, most of whom come over just for work. Or why our people do the same in other countries (people who go backpacking in Australia or NZ for example - at least they get to experience a new country out of it)


It's the government's problem to solve, as it is their responsibility to provide an education system that equips people for the future - whether they want to pursue university or an apprenticeship or start their own business.

When that system fails to provide, we look abroad to seek out their best and brightest. Unfortunately, Brexshitters seem determined to close this down. Hire anyone, no matter how unsuitable, unqualified and incompetent they may be... as long as they're British.