DS Forums

 
 

Four in 10 British businesses fear post-Brexit skills shortages


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 28-12-2016, 11:09
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
yeah well i have a money shortage, but im not turning to the government for support

why these so called self employed people get so much government assistance .. cheap labour, low taxes, low interest rates ..

it seems to me the latest problem is that theyve got too many customers, given that they cant find staff.

do this - raise prices, and youll have less customers ... problem solved.
Had you been drinking when you wrote that? None of it made any sense at all.
LostFool is online now   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 28-12-2016, 11:15
zahavi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 505
Newsflash: this isn't the 1950s anymore. People have greater expectations when it comes to job hunting. I'm not about to pack my job in and go fruit picking, nor am I going to do so if I am made redundant.



It's the government's problem to solve, as it is their responsibility to provide an education system that equips people for the future - whether they want to pursue university or an apprenticeship or start their own business.

When that system fails to provide, we look abroad to seek out their best and brightest. Unfortunately, Brexshitters seem determined to close this down. Hire anyone, no matter how unsuitable, unqualified and incompetent they may be... as long as they're British.
the economy corrects itself and doesnt any need any kind of government interference.

and if you are self employed perhaps you need start relying on your "self" , because this is what self employment is all about.
zahavi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 11:51
Lyricalis
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lost
Posts: 43,320
the economy corrects itself and doesnt any need any kind of government interference.

and if you are self employed perhaps you need start relying on your "self" , because this is what self employment is all about.
The economy doesn't correct itself. Thinking it does is a mistake of assuming that a mathematical model matches reality. The main reason it doesn't is because the model assumes free markets, which never actually exist. There is always some form of regulation, intervention or just downright dishonesty going on in any particular market.

Even flawed markets tend to do better than other attempts at providing goods and services though, but that doesn't mean that there's any equivalent of a physical law that says this will always be true.
Lyricalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 12:17
The infidel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,036
Skills shortages = fair pay rates, fair working hours and conditions of work and the end of 'zero-hours' contracts.
The infidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 12:43
zahavi
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 505
Skills shortages = fair pay rates, fair working hours and conditions of work and the end of 'zero-hours' contracts.
dont get your hopes up though.

once immigration from the EU comes to a halt, big business will make moves to accelerate mass immigration from third world nations outside the EU.
zahavi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 12:48
The infidel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,036
dont get your hopes up though.

once immigration from the EU comes to a halt, big business will make moves to accelerate mass immigration from third world nations outside the EU.
But we will have control of such things and we will not have to ask Germany's permission before we change immigration policy.
The infidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 12:55
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
But we will have control of such things and we will not have to ask Germany's permission before we change immigration policy.
"We" won't have any more control. All decision will be entirely down to internal politics in the Conservative Party. You or I won't have any say in the matter at all.
LostFool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 12:59
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
But we will have control of such things and we will not have to ask Germany's permission before we change immigration policy.
"we" already have control of non-EU immigration.

You don't appear to have heard of the term "consensus", as you think that even for EU matters, we have to "ask" Germany for "permission".
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 13:01
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
Skills shortages = fair pay rates, fair working hours and conditions of work and the end of 'zero-hours' contracts.
How will paying people more to work in Sports Direct warehouses help with the skills shortage?
LostFool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 14:00
Miasima Goria
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
Posts: 4,784
Skills shortages = fair pay rates, fair working hours and conditions of work and the end of 'zero-hours' contracts.
In healthcare there is an increasing shortage of qualified nurses. Wages are going down in real terms, as are job conditions on the whole.
Miasima Goria is offline Follow this poster on Twitter   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 15:03
Bacon&Eggs
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,806
Too much choice can definitely be counterproductive, just look at the people who end up turning away perfectly viable partners because they feel they should wait for 'the one'. I think employers, when they have far too many applicants for positions, tend to do the same. They become extremely picky and often the things they use as the deciding factor are the easily judged things, rather than the most important ones. So they insist on ever higher grades, then start demanding more and more work experience, and so on.

They also become more complacent as well. It becomes all about what you can offer them, and not about what they can offer you in return.
I think it's very productive indeed.

"Do you think you're overqualified for... [picking fruit]?" I always wondered why should that matter to the employer, but of course it matters because in the past those overqualified individuals had options to move on to better things and so the employer had to weigh up the pro's of having a well educated work force to pick fruit and the cons of having less dedicated fruit pickers who constantly seek and obtain better paid work.

The dynamics of the labour market guided the resolution of the dilemma so what we saw in the past was employers ensuring employees had the most relevant skills for [picking fruit] and that they could see that person sticking around a while. But specifying an employee should have communication skills at degree level standard or some other indirectly related asset, was a luxury, labour market conditions didn't allow.

Whilst looking for unskilled jobs, being highly skilled or educated attached a negative value to your cv because you had the choices, the employer had few. If the dynamics changed, if overqualified workers we're less able to find better work perhaps due to saturation of the labour market you can see how business is presented with a win win scenario - Overqualified workers for the price of qualified workers.

This is what the agricultural businesses are worried about when they say they'l be a labour shortage if we reduce immigration. They want the best workers from anywhere and everywhere to aid productivity but to pay the lowest wage. They'l be no shortage, just a new reality of more choice to workers, it may break them.
Bacon&Eggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 15:27
Morlock
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,087
the economy corrects itself and doesnt any need any kind of government interference.

and if you are self employed perhaps you need start relying on your "self" , because this is what self employment is all about.
Self employment is the Tory, Great Rock'n'Dole Swindle. Off the unemployment list, but receiving the same amount of money, no minimum wage, no sick pay, no holiday pay. It's a Tory wet dream.
Morlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 16:05
Tanky
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,711
How will paying people more to work in Sports Direct warehouses help with the skills shortage?
People keep saying that the skilled jobs will have shortages, but the overseas workers will likely stay on, as more relaxed visas for skilled workers, will make it easy for such workers to keep on working in the UK. It's the unskilled workers, who will get targeted the most. Not saying there won't be a shortage, but a minimal shortage due to some leaving the UK. However, this creates opportunity for British workers, as companies will have to train someone up to fill the role.

In healthcare there is an increasing shortage of qualified nurses. Wages are going down in real terms, as are job conditions on the whole.
If less nurses become available, hospitals will have to give better conditions and wages, to either keep staff on or attract nurses working somewhere else. It makes the market competitive.
Tanky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 16:33
Happ Hazzard
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
Businesses need to remember how to train up school-leavers to do jobs instead of relying on immigrants and graduates who have had to pay to be trained instead of being paid to train as always used to be the case.
Happ Hazzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 16:48
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
Businesses need to remember how to train up school-leavers to do jobs instead of relying on immigrants and graduates who have had to pay to be trained instead of being paid to train as always used to be the case.
The good news is that major companies are taking apprenticeships more seriously now than the have for many years

Here are some examples of non-graduate apprenticeships:
http://uk.gsk.com/en-gb/careers/apprenticeships/
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/page...ip-scheme.html
http://careers.rolls-royce.co.uk/uni...hool-leavers#/
http://www.hsbc.com/careers/students...apprenticeship
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/careers...ceship-scheme/

However, these schemes are very competitive to get on to and the ones with the best employers often have higher entry standards than many University courses.
LostFool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:03
Nodger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: A bunker
Posts: 5,962
Many companies do, as practically every new employee requires training of some kind. They do prefer to hire people who have even a basic understanding of the thing they've been hired to do though, even if the specifics have to be learnt on the job

But please, do tell us how we're going to take someone who practically failed their GCSEs, who struggles to string a sentence together, and turn them into a doctor or engineer by having companies pay for years and years of training (and low productivity). Because that's the sort of people we're looking at here. The people who got on in life probably already found jobs even with those menacing foreigners being able to walk in and take them too.

Or, in the Brexit universe, are these the people who will gleefully jump into the fields and spend the rest of their days fruit picking?
You want me to answer a question which hasn't actually ever applied in the real world (ever).... and, "Because that's the sort of people we're looking at here.". Is it?... I thought we were talking about skilled people, for skilled jobs. You know, people with fair education results who can be trained on the job and can and do become successful. Not a made up scenario based on the extremes (barely literate drongo to be trained to become a doctor?... grow up). Now ask me a sensible question and address your own question with what you think should happen with those you describe (and I have coined drongos) who in the reality of the real world will not be trained to be doctors and the like (assuming you can leave your strange minds world for a second that is).
Nodger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:05
Happ Hazzard
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire
Posts: 1,639
Why are people leaving school barely literate? That would seem to be the problem here.
Happ Hazzard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:07
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
whining cut for brevity
Truly skilled workers aren't the ones who will have a problem. They'll find a job regardless, and if that's not in the UK, other countries will throw visas at them to come over and work there. That may also discourage foreign talent coming to the UK, since this government is determined to make life ever more difficult for anyone who is here on a student or work visa.

For those who actually have a bit of a brain and can string a sentence together, many companies already do look for them with apprenticeships and entry level jobs.

It'll be the dregs who have an issue, hence my pertinent example. But I'm sure we'll use them to fill the impending shortages in the NHS!
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:09
Nodger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: A bunker
Posts: 5,962
Why are people leaving school barely literate? That would seem to be the problem here.
Apparently it's the governments fault and post Brexit we may have to consider how to train them to be doctors and the like.
Nodger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:11
Nodger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: A bunker
Posts: 5,962
Truly skilled workers aren't the ones who will have a problem. They'll find a job regardless, and if that's not in the UK, other countries will throw visas at them to come over and work there. That may also discourage foreign talent coming to the UK, since this government is determined to make life ever more difficult for anyone who is here on a student or work visa.

For those who actually have a bit of a brain and can string a sentence together, many companies already do look for them with apprenticeships and entry level jobs.

It'll be the dregs who have an issue, hence my pertinent example. But I'm sure we'll use them to fill the impending shortages in the NHS!
BIB: You don't agree with the article then? Least that's established I suppose and expecting or suggesting a 'dreg' is trained to be doctors and the like is very far away from pertinent and you know that.
Nodger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:16
The infidel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,036
How will paying people more to work in Sports Direct warehouses help with the skills shortage?
Such companies want a surplus of available labour such as we have because of the EU, as this allows them to force British workers to accept unfair conditions and unfair rates of pay.
The infidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:17
moox
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,636
BIB: You don't agree with the article then? Least that's established I suppose and expecting or suggesting a 'dreg' is trained to be doctors and the like is very far away from pertinent and you know that.
I'm not sure what I have said that makes you believe that I disagree with the article.

The truly skilled will go where the money is. That includes a potential brain drain from the UK as people don't want to live in the divisive, backwards society that this country is rapidly heading towards. We're compounding the issue by putting up barriers for people to come over and fill the gap. That includes what we do to non-EU immigrants today.

Like I said in my original post in this thread, my employer already finds it a challenge to recruit good people - and that's with the benefit of being able to consider people from any EU country. Take that away (by making it difficult through visas and immigration bollox) and that reduces the pool further. This year they've had to lower the bar to entry even in their graduate programme (you can be considered with a measly 2:2) because they're getting rather desperate.
moox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:19
LostFool
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 59,682
Why are people leaving school barely literate? That would seem to be the problem here.
A very good question. They've had tens of thousands of pounds of taxpayers money spent on them from the ages of 5-16. Schools have better facilities than they ever had before (I remember the leaking roofs and portacabins with no heating in the 70s) and teachers are better trained than their predecessors. Yet despite tens of billions being spent in the last 30 years, education standards of some 16 year olds have hardly risen at all.
LostFool is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:21
The infidel
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,036
But we will have control of such things and we will not have to ask Germany's permission before we change immigration policy.
We have not been able to have the the best and brightest coming from India for example because Germany has decided we must take all the EU workers that want to come here. This is regardless of their criminal history, skills level, ability to speak English etc.
The infidel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-12-2016, 17:29
Nodger
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: A bunker
Posts: 5,962
whining cut for brevity
You see moox, I was replying to your reply to me, not your initial post you have now moved on to instead of actually addresing my points in reply. How about you admit your scenario in your reply to me is utter BS and perhaps I will take your other posts seriously and reply in kind if they didn't contain the nonsense and rudeness you have littered this thread with (also undeniable as in the example above I have repeated for your post/quote, or "Brexidiots" etc... or similar comment, can't be arsed to read back and check exactly.... you keep typing shite, i'll keep ignoring it and not give a shite).
Nodger is online now   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:07.