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Why has the Eurozone been such a failure ? |
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#1 |
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Why has the Eurozone been such a failure ?
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Wise man.This says it all Far from promoting European prosperity, peace or influence, it has “tied together” countries with vastly different economic and social backgrounds, denying them the vital ability to manipulate their exchange and interest rates. |
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#3 |
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....... and this is the European Union Remainers want us to remain a member of. Notice they never talk about this. They never make the argument that the answer to the EU's economic problems is more Europe, more political union, more economic centralisation. They only ever want to talk about the economic problems to Britain of being outside this EU mess.
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#4 |
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Because the euro has only benefitted Germany? To the detriment of other countries.
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#5 |
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Does anyone remember Peter Jay? He was a journalist and I think one time something or other in the treasury. He came to give a talk on the proposed Euro where I worked back in the eighties or maybe early nineties. He predicted all the problems with the euro that we now see. Mass migration within the EU to certain countries like Germany and the UK, problems with the inability of national governments to set appropriate interest rates, or markets to set the value of their currency.
And it's all come true. I remember at the time understanding his arguments but thinking if it a single currency worked for the single market that was the UK why not the EU? How naive I was! |
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#6 |
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It all depends what one means by "failure". The currency has certainly had its problems, particularly around the area of countries being able to devalue their currency. But how does this explain countries still wishing to scrap their own own currency to join the Eurozone? Latvia joined the Euro in 2014 and Lithuania as recently as last year.
Also, the doomsdayers were predicting the imminent and complete collapse of the Euro when the global crash was underway in 2008-09 and yet the currency proved remarkably resilient. |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Quote:
....... and this is the European Union Remainers want us to remain a member of. Notice they never talk about this. They never make the argument that the answer to the EU's economic problems is more Europe, more political union, more economic centralisation. They only ever want to talk about the economic problems to Britain of being outside this EU mess.
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#8 |
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No it isn't. I don't know any remainers who want the UK to join the eurozone. What they want is for you to remain in the single market with your own currency.
Now I think Remainers should be honest. Arguments for being in the EU must include arguments in favour of political and economic union. Such arguments exist but you seldom hear them made, which is surprising really because a very large part of the reason for the EU's existence comes down to a politico/economic one. It is primarily a political project. Yet Remainers seldom if ever talk in its favour. Preferring instead to emphasise the economic disaster, as they see it, of our leaving. Personally I think this was fundamentally dishonest of those leading the remain side before the referendum and they're still doing it. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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.... And you believe do you that the ever more closer political and economic integration of the Eurozone, which is essentially the EU, would have somehow or other bypassed the UK? I think this is one of the many reasons some of us with long experience of the EU decided on Brexit. Whatever promises are made we know from experience that there is an inexorable progress towards ever more political and economic union.
Now I think Remainers should be honest. Arguments for being in the EU must include arguments in favour of political and economic union. Such arguments exist but you seldom hear them made, which is surprising really because a very large part of the reason for the EU's existence comes down to a politico/economic one. It is primarily a political project. Yet Remainers seldom if ever talk in its favour. Preferring instead to emphasise the economic disaster, as they see it, of our leaving. Personally I think this was fundamentally dishonest of those leading the remain side before the referendum and they're still doing it. |
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#10 |
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No it isn't. I don't know any remainers who want the UK to join the eurozone. What they want is for you to remain in the single market with your own currency.
New accession countries since, I think 1994, are compelled to join the €uro, which explains Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, however, Sweden is refusing so far. That country is one to watch after Article 50 is triggered because I believe she'll be on our side. |
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#11 |
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You know as well I do that had we voted to stay in the EU then the UK would have been put under a lot of pressure to join the €uro Zone and the Schengen Area since the result would have been taken as a green light for our total immersion into the bloc.
New accession countries since, I think 1994, are compelled to join the €uro, which explains Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, however, Sweden is refusing so far. That country is one to watch after Article 50 is triggered because I believe she'll be on our side. |
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#12 |
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I don't think Britain would have been put under any pressure to join the eurozone, which is why I think pointing to problems with the euro as a reason for Brexit are completely illogical. If you were posting from Greece I could see why you'd use the euro as a reason for your country to leave, but Britain, no.
But addressing your point. I see it more that the EU will inevitably have to increasingly integrate both politically and economically in order to address the problems it has within the Euro zone. I think inevitably we would not have remained untouched by whatever macro economic policies were introduced concerning the centralisation of taxation, employment law, business law, financial law and so on. We would have to fight a sort of rear guard action all the way to resist this. Inevitably (because this has happened again and again) future British governments would have traded in control for certain other benefits or found they couldn't legally extracate themselves from complying with EU directives. But essentially in the end it comes down to where do we want to go? Do we want to be at the back of the train with the breaks on but ultimately going where the rest of the EU eventually takes us? Or do we want to be masters of our own destiny? |
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#13 |
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UK are not in Eurozone and were never going to join Eurozone. It is just another lie by Leave that we'd be forced to join. UK had the most bespoke EU deal negotiated over decades. Scaremongering like Turkey imminent membership.
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#14 |
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UK are not in Eurozone and were never going to join Eurozone. It is just another lie by Leave that we'd be forced to join. UK had the most bespoke EU deal negotiated over decades. Scaremongering like Turkey imminent membership.
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#15 |
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Because the euro has only benefitted Germany? To the detriment of other countries.
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#16 |
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UK are not in Eurozone and were never going to join Eurozone. It is just another lie by Leave that we'd be forced to join. UK had the most bespoke EU deal negotiated over decades. Scaremongering like Turkey imminent membership.
There are some "la-la land" leaver fantasists who make up stuff as they go along to try to make their case. Ask anyone in Sweden or Denmark whether they're going to be forced to abandon the Krone and join the euro, and they'll laugh at you. |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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I realised that Germany controls the EU in such a way that they never be at a disadvantage when compared to other EU countries. They pushed for Greece to be allowed into the Euro purely because it made it much easier for them to export their cars and other manufactured goods there. They ignored the fact the financial chaos would eventually ensue. The EU takes far too much money out of Britain and to think we actually pay to be a member of such a corrupt, incompetent and damaging organisation is beyond me.
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#18 |
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I realised that Germany controls the EU in such a way that they never be at a disadvantage when compared to other EU countries. They pushed for Greece to be allowed into the Euro purely because it made it much easier for them to export their cars and other manufactured goods there. They ignored the fact the financial chaos would eventually ensue. The EU takes far too much money out of Britain and to think we actually pay to be a member of such a corrupt, incompetent and damaging organisation is beyond me.
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#19 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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The Euro has been bad for Italy and Spain. Why are the leaders of the EU too stubborn or arrogant to admit the got it all wrong.
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#20 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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It all depends what one means by "failure". The currency has certainly had its problems, particularly around the area of countries being able to devalue their currency. But how does this explain countries still wishing to scrap their own own currency to join the Eurozone? Latvia joined the Euro in 2014 and Lithuania as recently as last year.
Also, the doomsdayers were predicting the imminent and complete collapse of the Euro when the global crash was underway in 2008-09 and yet the currency proved remarkably resilient. Regarding failure, the inability of countries to control the currency, as they don't have a currency, is serious. Add to that the fact that their budgets have to be approved by the Commission or ECB, can't remember which it is. In the nineties those of us who predicted the euro could only survive if some form of central vetting of national budgets was established, were called everything from scaremongerers to nutters. I know of no euro enthusiast whose apologised for this. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Apr 2014
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Exactly.
There are some "la-la land" leaver fantasists who make up stuff as they go along to try to make their case. Ask anyone in Sweden or Denmark whether they're going to be forced to abandon the Krone and join the euro, and they'll laugh at you. |
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#22 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
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Quote:
Because the euro has only benefitted Germany? To the detriment of other countries.
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#23 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
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Quote:
Exactly.
There are some "la-la land" leaver fantasists who make up stuff as they go along to try to make their case. Ask anyone in Sweden or Denmark whether they're going to be forced to abandon the Krone and join the euro, and they'll laugh at you. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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It saddens me to think that a supposedly intelligent Nobel prize winning economist has only just figured out what was painfully obvious to many people going back way before the single currency was introduced.
Here's hoping his Nobel prize wasn't for anything to do with economics Mince pie anyone? |
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#25 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
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It saddens me to think that a supposedly intelligent Nobel prize winning economist has only just figured out what was painfully obvious to many people going back way before the single currency was introduced.
Here's hoping his Nobel prize wasn't for anything to do with economics Mince pie anyone? |
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