DS Forums

 
 

Six months post Brexit and the picture is clear,Britain is heading for isolationalism


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27-12-2016, 12:50
MARTYM8
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
Did you mean that in the Mrs Brown sense?
MARTYM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 27-12-2016, 12:54
jmclaugh
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
The only way Britain could be headed for isolationism is if others do the isolating which would say more about them than the UK.
jmclaugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:20
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
All? Even the majority of countries that are net beneficiaries? Doubt it. I
Yes, dear, all 27 means all 27. God only knows what's so difficult about the concept of all 27 chipping in to make up the shortfall from Brexit that I've had to repeat it three times now. Its hardly rocket science - one country leaves and all the remaining members budget contributions go up slightly to replace their membership fee.
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:39
Eurostar
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,606
The only way Britain could be headed for isolationism is if others do the isolating which would say more about them than the UK.
It's quite rare though for countries to withdraw from trading blocs or international unions. It can in no way be compared to a country gaining its independence and going it alone as Farage and Boris claimed. If you're withdrawing from a 28 strong economic / political union, you are definitely isolating yourself, there are no two ways about it.
Eurostar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:40
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
Yes, dear, all 27 means all 27. God only knows what's so difficult about the concept of all 27 chipping in to make up the shortfall from Brexit that I've had to repeat it three times now. Its hardly rocket science - one country leaves and all the remaining members budget contributions go up slightly to replace their membership fee.
And you live in a delusion that all 27 nations contribute their fair share? In reality it's very few that are bet contributors. The rest unashamedly leech off us.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:41
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
It's quite rare though for countries to withdraw from trading blocs or international unions. It can in no way be compared to a country gaining its independence and going it alone as Farage and Boris claimed. If you're withdrawing from a 28 strong economic / political union, you are definitely isolating yourself, there are no two ways about it.
Which other blocks in the world are political unions apart fro the EU?
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:42
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
And you live in a delusion that all 27 nations contribute their fair share? In reality it's very few that are bet contributors. The rest unashamedly leech off us.
Yeah, yeah. All EU members contribute to the EU budget, and EEA members also pay a membership fee to belong to the single market. When one member leaves, the others will up their contributions by a proportionate share to make up the shortfall and carry on as normal. Nobody in the EU is at all concerned about the UK's membership fee, the only people who ever obsess about it are Brexiters.
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:44
ireland2day
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,210
You know all those bailouts certain parts of the British media never stop banging on about, you would think the same media would understand that Britain's contribution will not be difficult to muster up between the remaining 27 members.
ireland2day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:46
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
Yeah, yeah. All EU members contribute to the EU budget, and EEA members also pay a membership fee to belong to the single market. When one member leaves, the others will up their contributions by a proportionate share to make up the shortfall and carry on as normal. Nobody in the EU is at all concerned about the UK's membership fee, the only people who ever obsess about it are Brexiters.
Completely ignoring the fact that net beneficiaries are not contributing. The only people contributing are net contributors.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:46
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
Which other blocks in the world are political unions apart fro the EU?
All of them have a political element to some extent. The EU is further along that path than the others because its been around longer.
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:46
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
You know all those bailouts the British media never stop banging on about, you would think the same media would understand that Britain's contribution will not be difficult to muster up between the remaining 27 members.
See #84.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:47
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
All of them have a political element to some extent. The EU is further along that path than the others because its been around longer.
No they don't. Laws in the US are not made in Ottawa. And laws in Canada are not made in Washington.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:50
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
Completely ignoring the fact that net beneficiaries are not contributing. The only people contributing are net contributors.
Okay I see I'll have to explain it slowly. Here's what happens...

1) All EU members and EEA members pay their contribution into the EU pot

2) The budget - CAP payments, structural funds, salaries and pensions, etc - is worked out by the Commission, then approved by the Council and voted on by the EU parliament.

3) The monies are then distributed from the EU budget as agreed.

4) If one member that's currently paying in to the pot leaves, the budget stays the same and every remaining member pays a proportionate share of the shortfall on top of their existing contribution.

5) That will probably mean that some countries who are now net beneficiaries will become net contributors, (almost certainly in Ireland's case).

6) The EU will carry on just fine without the member that left.

Get it now?
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:52
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
No they don't. Laws in the US are not made in Ottawa. And laws in Canada are not made in Washington.
No, but Ottawa, Washington and other members of NAFTA do get together and agree common laws on such things as minimum standards for goods and services that they trade, just as the Council of Ministers do in the EU.
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:54
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
No, but Ottawa, Washington and other members of NAFTA do get together and agree common laws on such things as minimum standards for goods and services that they trade, just as the Council of Ministers do in the EU.
There's only one other member of NAFTA apart from the two mentioned. So the answer is no. It's not political union.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:56
Cheetah666
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,573
There's only one other member of NAFTA apart from the two mentioned. So the answer is no. It's not political union.
No its not a political union, but like every other trading bloc it has an element of political integration involved. You can't really manage a trading bloc without some harmonisation of laws.
Cheetah666 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 13:58
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
No its not a political union, but like every other trading bloc it has an element of political integration involved. You can't really manage a trading bloc without some harmonisation of laws.
There are no blocks in the world apart from the EU that infringe on every aspect of citizens lives. That's why it's destined to fail.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:01
ireland2day
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,210
The whole EU project is heading for collapse.
That's hilarious, a sentiment the Daily Express have been reporting every week for the last God knows how many years.
Any idea when this collapse is happening?
This week? This year? Next year? This decade?
ireland2day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:04
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
That's hilarious, a sentiment the Daily Express have been reporting every week for the last God knows how many years.
Any idea when this collapse is happening?
This week? This year? Next year? This decade?
Not long. The whole edifice is crumbling. Mad merkel and her free for all in immigration, Italy and its forthcoming banking collapse. Us Leaving. Life is rosy in your beloved EU.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:09
Mark_Jones9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,834
4) If one member that's currently paying in to the pot leaves, the budget stays the same and every remaining member pays a proportionate share of the shortfall on top of their existing contribution.
That will not happen.
Either the EU will somehow persuade the UK to make EU payments after leaving so the EU can honour its planned future spending or a new EU budget with lower spending will be made. Existing EU member states will simply not agree to making up the shortfall created by the UK leaving. For most member states it would be hundreds of millions of euros, for some it would be in excess of a billion euros,
Mark_Jones9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:10
ireland2day
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,210
Not long. The whole edifice is crumbling. Mad merkel and her free for all in immigration, Italy and its forthcoming banking collapse. Us Leaving. Life is rosy in your beloved EU.
I see no real appetite from the people's of the remaining 27 to leave.
Italy won't have a banking collapse.
And after the chaos, confusion and isolationalism that is now engulfing Britain post the Brexit vote, there'll be an even more steely resolute from EU members to keep the project together, after all too much political capital and time has gone into it to see it fail.
ireland2day is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:16
allaorta
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 18,881
Okay I see I'll have to explain it slowly. Here's what happens...

1) All EU members and EEA members pay their contribution into the EU pot

2) The budget - CAP payments, structural funds, salaries and pensions, etc - is worked out by the Commission, then approved by the Council and voted on by the EU parliament.

3) The monies are then distributed from the EU budget as agreed.

4) If one member that's currently paying in to the pot leaves, the budget stays the same and every remaining member pays a proportionate share of the shortfall on top of their existing contribution.

5) That will probably mean that some countries who are now net beneficiaries will become net contributors, (almost certainly in Ireland's case).

6) The EU will carry on just fine without the member that left.

Get it now?
I can't see anything about our in excess of £2 billion contribution which would surely rise to £3 billion within a year or two.
allaorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:18
zarkov
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 424
Scotland needs to get out of the UK. An obsolete unequal union where the larger part decided to set itself on fire and jump off a cliff singing 'Rule Britannia'. Ugly visceral nationalism at its worst. You can see the way our EU neighbours are thinking regarding Scotland going by the President of the European Commission reactions -

Salmond -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWarq3_moTY

May -

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/st...25242062151680

Once the reality of the Brexit negotiations hit; we'll be off.
zarkov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:25
MTUK1
Inactive Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 19,783
Scotland needs to get out of the UK. An obsolete unequal union where the larger part decided to set itself on fire and jump off a cliff singing 'Rule Britannia'. Ugly visceral nationalism at its worst. You can see the way our EU neighbours are thinking regarding Scotland going by the President of the European Commission reactions -

Salmond -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWarq3_moTY

May -

https://twitter.com/darrengrimes_/st...25242062151680

Once the reality of the Brexit negotiations hit; we'll be off.
No you won't. Firstly, you're subsidized to the hilt by England. So you're onto a nice little earner. And secondly, leaving the UK and re joining the EU would not make you independent in the slightest. In fact, you'd be less independent than you are now.
MTUK1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-12-2016, 14:25
Mark_Jones9
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,834
Italy won't have a banking collapse.
Would you buy shares in Banca Monte dei Paschi di Siena?
Mark_Jones9 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 20:07.