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Six months post Brexit and the picture is clear,Britain is heading for isolationalism


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Old 27-12-2016, 17:06
andykn
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A common remoaner tactic.
No, it's the Brexit tactic of dismissing any fact that ruins your argument.
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Old 27-12-2016, 17:43
Mark_Jones9
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Being the only "block" without developing countries..
Bulgaria and Romania are developing nations and EU member states.
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Old 27-12-2016, 17:48
MTUK1
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Bulgaria and Romania are developing nations and EU member states.
Ha.
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Old 27-12-2016, 17:52
andykn
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And according to that (IMF) definition eight EU countries used to be developing but have graduated.

Of course, we can't make any comparisons because you are too frightened to show us where your figures come from or what other "blocks" you are talking about.

I wonder why.
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Old 27-12-2016, 18:36
Cheetah666
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There were no promises made about retaining EU membership. Even if they were, you'd have to be as thick as two short planks to believe it seeing as the EU referendum was announced by then.
No it wasn't. The Scottish referendum was held in September 2014, the election of the Conservative government promising a referendum didn't happen until early 2015. Nobody back in September 2014 could have predicted a Tory majority would happen the next year, most people didn't even see it coming on election day until the exit polls were released.
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:13
allaorta
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No it wasn't. The Scottish referendum was held in September 2014, the election of the Conservative government promising a referendum didn't happen until early 2015. Nobody back in September 2014 could have predicted a Tory majority would happen the next year, most people didn't even see it coming on election day until the exit polls were released.
More nonsense. Cameron promised a referendum during his first tenure, 2010-2015. The Scots knew it was coming alright.

A draft bill was raised in 2013 which the Lords blocked. There was also potential problems with the 2015 general election resulting in a hung Parliament but there was never any doubt about the Conservatives proceeding if they won with a majority.
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:17
Cheetah666
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More nonsense. Cameron promised a referendum during his first tenure, 2010-2015. The Scots knew it was coming alright.

A draft bill was raised in 2013 which the Lords blocked. There was also potential problems with the 2015 general election resulting in a hung Parliament but there was never any doubt about the Conservatives proceeding if they won with a majority.
No there wasn't but that completely ignores the point I just made, which is that nobody could have predicted a Tory majority back in September 2014. Paddy Ashdown was confidently declaring that he'd eat his underwear live on television if the Tories won a majority on the night of the election! Pretty much every opinion poll up until the exit polls said the Tories wouldn't win an overall majority, so how did you expect the people of Scotland to predict a Tory majority six months previously?
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:48
andykn
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More nonsense. Cameron promised a referendum during his first tenure, 2010-2015. The Scots knew it was coming alright.

A draft bill was raised in 2013 which the Lords blocked. There was also potential problems with the 2015 general election resulting in a hung Parliament but there was never any doubt about the Conservatives proceeding if they won with a majority.
Cameron also promised non EU immigration would be down to "tens of thousands"....
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:52
MTUK1
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No it wasn't. The Scottish referendum was held in September 2014, the election of the Conservative government promising a referendum didn't happen until early 2015. Nobody back in September 2014 could have predicted a Tory majority would happen the next year, most people didn't even see it coming on election day until the exit polls were released.
I just have imagined him announcing the referendum in 2013 then.
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:54
Steve_Holmes
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No there wasn't but that completely ignores the point I just made, which is that nobody could have predicted a Tory majority back in September 2014. Paddy Ashdown was confidently declaring that he'd eat his underwear live on television if the Tories won a majority on the night of the election! Pretty much every opinion poll up until the exit polls said the Tories wouldn't win an overall majority, so how did you expect the people of Scotland to predict a Tory majority six months previously?
So what? They have acted democratically by allowing referendums for both Scotland's independence from the UK, and the Uk's independence from the EU.
Even the most bigoted Lefty cannot deny that this is democracy in action........despite the whingers on both issues not stop whingeing because the result wasn't what they desired.
OK, I'll admit, that I wouldn't be too happy if the EU referendum had gone t'other way - and I would be hard pressed to accept it - but I certainly wouldn't do a hissy 'Clegg'!!
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:55
Cheetah666
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I just have imagined him announcing the referendum in 2013 then.
His 2013 announcement was contingent on winning an overall Tory majority. Is this another one of those things that will need to be explained at least three times before you get it?
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Old 27-12-2016, 19:56
Cheetah666
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So what? They have acted democratically by allowing referendums for both Scotland's independence from the UK, and the Uk's independence from the EU.
Even the most bigoted Lefty cannot deny that this is democracy in action........despite the whingers on both issues not stop whingeing because the result wasn't what they desired.
OK, I'll admit, that I wouldn't be too happy if the EU referendum had gone t'other way - and I would be hard pressed to accept it - but I certainly wouldn't do a hissy 'Clegg'!!
Does nobody read posts in context any more? Your entire post is irrelevant to mine, I was responding to someone who said that Scots must have been as thick as two short planks if they didn't predict an EU referendum when they voted in 2014.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:01
MTUK1
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His 2013 announcement was contingent on winning an overall Tory majority. Is this another one of those things that will need to be explained at least three times before you get it?
So what? It was always a possibility he could get a majority. Are you insulting Scottish people by saying they didn't know that?
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:03
Cheetah666
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So what? It was always a possibility he could get a majority. Are you insulting Scottish people by saying they didn't know that?
It was a possibility nobody thought would happen right up until election night. So it was a bit insulting of you to say the Scots were as thick as two short planks because they couldn't predict six months in advance.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:05
MTUK1
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It was a possibility nobody thought would happen right up until election night. So it was a bit insulting of you to say the Scots were as thick as two short planks because they couldn't predict six months in advance.
I didn't say that. I said that it was always a possibility. And it would be rather silly of them to base their decision thinking we're 100% going to stay in the EU.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:09
Cheetah666
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I didn't say that. I said that it was always a possibility. And it would be rather silly of them to base their decision thinking we're 100% going to stay in the EU.
It was even more silly for the No campaign to use the threat of being outside the EU as part of their platform because now that gives the SNP a reason to say the indy referendum result is suspect.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:11
MTUK1
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It was even more silly for the No campaign to use the threat of being outside the EU as part of their platform because now that gives the SNP a reason to say the indy referendum result is suspect.
No it doesn't. It's 2 and half years after the result. They lost. They need to get over it.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:12
Cheetah666
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No it doesn't. It's 2 and half years after the result. They lost. They need to get over it.
No they don't. They're perfectly entitled to carry on using any constitutional means at their disposal to achieve their goal of independence, including using Brexit as a means to get a second indy referendum.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:15
moox
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No it doesn't. It's 2 and half years after the result. They lost. They need to get over it.
Remind me: did those who were opposed to us joining the EU "get over it"? Or did they spend the best part of 40 years trying to get us out, including fabricating outright lies and attempting to blame everything on "Brussels" and the foreigners?

(I'll help you: no, they didn't get over it, and yes they did do that).

Remind me: did Farage say that "it's not over" if remain won?

(I'll help you: yes, he did say that, right up until it seemed like leave was winning)
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:17
MTUK1
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No they don't. They're perfectly entitled to carry on using any constitutional means at their disposal to achieve their goal of independence, including using Brexit as a means to get a second indy referendum.
No they're not. The SNP had a referendum. They lost. They should grow up and get over themselves. They're also hypocrites. Wanting to rejoin the EU and taking the Euro and Schengen is not independence for Scotland. Coming from Ireland who were asked (bullied) in to voting again, not once, but was it three times, I am not surprised at your thinking.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:19
MTUK1
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Remind me: did those who were opposed to us joining the EU "get over it"? Or did they spend the best part of 40 years trying to get us out, including fabricating outright lies and attempting to blame everything on "Brussels" and the foreigners?

(I'll help you: no, they didn't get over it, and yes they did do that).

Remind me: did Farage say that "it's not over" if remain won?

(I'll help you: yes, he did say that, right up until it seemed like leave was winning)
We never had a vote on joining the EU. But for someone who thought the difference between 52/48 is 2 I am not surprised you didn't know that. And don't trot out the Yes we did lie. We didn't. We had a vote on the EC. Which was a totally different thing.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:23
Cheetah666
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No they're not. The SNP had a referendum. They lost. They should grow up and get over themselves. They're also hypocrites. Wanting to rejoin the EU and taking the Euro and Schengen is not independence for Scotland. Coming from Ireland who were asked (bullied) in to voting again, not once, but was it three times, I am not surprised at your thinking.
Yes they are, whether you like it or not. You don't get to tell a democratically elected party what they are and aren't entitled to campaign for.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:23
moox
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We never had a vote on joining the EU. But for someone who thought the difference between 52/48 is 2 I am not surprised you didn't know that. And don't trot out the Yes we did lie. We didn't. We had a vote on the EC. Which was a totally different thing.
We did have a vote on joining the EC (which isn't that different at all), which would have been opposed prior to and after that referendum. We also allowed successive governments to negotiate changes and treaties on our behalf - a government that we supposedly indirectly elect.

Moving the goalposts, as you're attempting to do, isn't a good strategy.

You have, probably intentionally, ignored the second part of my post. Farage said "it's not over" right up until his side won. If it had been 52/48 remain you can bet that "Are Nige" would have kept on and on and on and on about it.

As for your constant bleating on about 52/48, you need to look up the term "nuance" and understand what that word means. You seem incapable of reading and digesting entire paragraphs and the entirety of someone's point of view. This is unfortunate, and a typical trait of those who voted to leave.

You also don't understand how FPTP works with two options, as if you did, you'd know why I said the actual majority was around 2 percent. Again, this is unfortunate.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:27
MTUK1
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Yes they are, whether you like it or not. You don't get to tell a democratically elected party what they are and aren't entitled to campaign for.
No they're not. They would be if they had won the referendum and they wanted genuine independence without the EU. Having their own currency and setting their own laws. Otherwise they're a bunch of hypocrites.
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Old 27-12-2016, 20:29
MTUK1
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We did have a vote on joining the EC (which isn't that different at all), which would have been opposed prior to and after that referendum. We also allowed successive governments to negotiate changes and treaties on our behalf - a government that we supposedly indirectly elect.

Moving the goalposts, as you're attempting to do, isn't a good strategy.

You have, probably intentionally, ignored the second part of my post. Farage said "it's not over" right up until his side won. If it had been 52/48 remain you can bet that "Are Nige" would have kept on and on and on and on about it.

As for your constant bleating on about 52/48, you need to look up the term "nuance" and understand what that word means. You seem incapable of reading and digesting entire paragraphs and the entirety of someone's point of view. This is unfortunate, and a typical trait of those who voted to leave.

You also don't understand how FPTP works with two options, as if you did, you'd know why I said the actual majority was around 2 percent. Again, this is unfortunate.
The EC and EU were 2 different things. Do not lie and say they were not. I'd say it's you that doesn't understand how FPTP works. Leave won. You lost. Next.

And now you're changing what you said regarding percentages because your dumb grasp of maths was exposed.
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