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Royal Institution Christmas Lectures 2016 - BBC Four


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Old 30-12-2016, 23:56
njp
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Good luck to people if they want to read those (apart from the last) but I always think it ridiculous when people claim to learn more about conditions in Victorian Britain from reading Dickens then they would from reading a proper factual account of which there are many.
You are Mr Gradgrind, and I claim my five pounds.
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Old 31-12-2016, 00:02
njp
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That said, I am confused why a AAA battery holds less energy than a AA battery. You would expect it to hold 50% more?
Funnily enough, size isn't always a reliable guide to capacity, regardless of the cell chemistry. It used to be quite common (for example) to sell 'D' size rechargeables that had a 'C' cell inside.
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Old 31-12-2016, 00:03
lundavra
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That's a very good point. As someone from an electronics background of course I know the difference between parallel and series and volts, amps, watts and ohms, but not a single thing was explained. It was like "Oh that isn't important. We don't need to explain how the lemons were wired up just that it was a 1000!!! whatever that was a 1000 of don't matter either."

How was this science in any way when science of any form is the meticulous study and recording of details. "It was 1000 somethings or other" doesn't cut it at all.
I found this on the Guiness site

The highest voltage from a potato battery is 1,224 volts and was achieved by the Marie-Therese Gymnasium (Germany) in Erlangen, Germany, on 7 July 2012.
So looks as if they were in series and the output was over 1000v - I found the same figure on a US site so sure they are not doing the continental thing and using a comma as decimal point.
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Old 31-12-2016, 11:32
Brian The Dog
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Yes, knowing what I know I took it as volts, but it's just the way that they didn't think the unit of measurement needed to be mentioned is the problem. They are meant to be encouraging kids into science and thinking that leaving out a very important detail like what it is they are measuring is just wrong. It's very bad science.

It's rather like the dumbed down computing would of today: The kids now do "coding" and arrogantly think that that is all one and only one thing and makes sense to those of us who grew up at the start of the arrival of home computers and know that "coding" can and is done in many different computer languages and levels. Them: "I do coding now!". Me: "You do? What language or machine code level are you employing?". Them "What do you mean? What are you talking about? You know, I do coding with computers and stuff.".
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Old 31-12-2016, 12:25
lundavra
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Yes, knowing what I know I took it as volts, but it's just the way that they didn't think the unit of measurement needed to be mentioned is the problem. They are meant to be encouraging kids into science and thinking that leaving out a very important detail like what it is they are measuring is just wrong. It's very bad science.

It's rather like the dumbed down computing would of today: The kids now do "coding" and arrogantly think that that is all one and only one thing and makes sense to those of us who grew up at the start of the arrival of home computers and know that "coding" can and is done in many different computer languages and levels. Them: "I do coding now!". Me: "You do? What language or machine code level are you employing?". Them "What do you mean? What are you talking about? You know, I do coding with computers and stuff.".
I have wondered about the depth of knowledge of "coding" that is being taught, I suppose it is better than a few years ago some parents thought their children were experts on computers because they spent a lot of time playing games on them. I have my suspicions that the "coding" is not much more advanced then when quite young children were taught to program a toy car to move around using LOGO (I think).

I suppose if they had said it was 1000 volts then someone would be worrying about the kids being electrocuted if they touched the wires though I suspect they would not come to any harm. Could explain why the Lemon Battery was not in the lecture theatre (I think).
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Old 31-12-2016, 12:36
njp
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I suppose if they had said it was 1000 volts then someone would be worrying about the kids being electrocuted if they touched the wires though I suspect they would not come to any harm. Could explain why the Lemon Battery was not in the lecture theatre (I think).
It pretty much had to be over a thousand volts, based on the electrochemistry of the single lemon battery (whose voltage he measured in the lecture theatre), and the number of lemons wired in series. However the Guinness "highest voltage" citation didn't mention the achieved voltage (I freeze-framed it), and the scaling on the auto-ranging multimeter was unclear.

I assume that the reason it wasn't in the theatre was because it was a temperamental beast that didn't respond well to being moved. They were probably tweaking the connections up to the last minute.

I agree with the people complaining about the lax attitude towards units of measurement throughout the lectures. I'm still quite cross about the whole AA battery as a unit of energy (or was it power?) thing...
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Old 31-12-2016, 13:09
petely
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I agree with the people complaining about the lax attitude towards units of measurement throughout the lectures. I'm still quite cross about the whole AA battery as a unit of energy (or was it power?) thing...
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that during one of the many, many, meetings about this, the question of complexity was raised. At that point a BBC commissioning luvvie would have said something like:

"Well, I don't understand all this Volts and Whats [sic] stuff, so I don't think you should subject the children to it."

Whether the presenter or science writers would have been able to restrain themselves from the obvious retort, we will never know. But it could be that the programmes had to be dumbed-down to the level of an arts-graduated middle-manager who couldn't even wire a plug (if such a thing was allowed, any more).
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:25
iamian
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But it could be that the programmes had to be dumbed-down to the level of an arts-graduated middle-manager who couldn't even wire a plug (if such a thing was allowed, any more).
I was not aware that one could not. Part P for example only covers circuits and sockets, not wiring of appliances in domestic circumstances. If I'm wrong then someone had better arrest me.
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Old 31-12-2016, 14:42
gomezz
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However the Guinness "highest voltage" citation didn't mention the achieved voltage
Yes they did. I quite clearly heard the adjudicator say it and saw it for myself on the meter.
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Old 31-12-2016, 16:03
lundavra
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Yes they did. I quite clearly heard the adjudicator say it and saw it for myself on the meter.
Did they say the units, I thought they just gave a figure without saying what unit or even what they were measuring.
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Old 31-12-2016, 16:19
mark_beach
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Did they say the units, I thought they just gave a figure without saying what unit or even what they were measuring.
As a former Guinness World record holder myself I can clear up a few things,
The lecturer stated "lets move over to the voltmeter" then they read off the value of the lemon battery.
The certificate was awarded for "The highest voltage for a fruit battery"
https://postimg.org/image/4egr1725f/
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Old 31-12-2016, 16:34
Andy2
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That's a very good point. As someone from an electronics background of course I know the difference between parallel and series and volts, amps, watts and ohms, but not a single thing was explained. It was like "Oh that isn't important. We don't need to explain how the lemons were wired up just that it was a 1000!!! whatever that was a 1000 of don't matter either."

How was this science in any way when science of any form is the meticulous study and recording of details. "It was 1000 somethings or other" doesn't cut it at all.
Ha, that reminds me very much of my college days (back in the 60's). Our electronics theory lecturer would do his fruit if anyone dared to provide an answer without stating the units.
"5192?, 5192 WHAT?? spare wheels? jumpers? bottles of Lanry?" he would shout.

The 'bottles of Lanry' always made me chuckle.
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Old 31-12-2016, 16:56
njp
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Yes they did. I quite clearly heard the adjudicator say it and saw it for myself on the meter.
There is no reference to the actual voltage on the certificate, as you can see here:

The certificate was awarded for "The highest voltage for a fruit battery"
https://postimg.org/image/4egr1725f/
And the scaling on the meter was unclear, as I said. Though I presume it was kV.
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Old 31-12-2016, 19:43
gomezz
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There is no reference to the actual voltage on the certificate, as you can see here:
No I can't.
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Old 31-12-2016, 19:54
njp
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You can see a voltage written on the certificate? Remarkable.

What is it?
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Old 31-12-2016, 19:59
gomezz
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No, I can't see the certificate.
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Old 31-12-2016, 20:04
njp
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No, I can't see the certificate.
The link doesn't work for you?
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Old 31-12-2016, 20:15
gomezz
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Nope.
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Old 31-12-2016, 20:36
mark_beach
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As a former Guinness World record holder myself I can clear up a few things,
The lecturer stated "lets move over to the voltmeter" then they read off the value of the lemon battery.
The certificate was awarded for "The highest voltage for a fruit battery"
https://postimg.org/image/4egr1725f/
Here's another source for the picture http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=25yu...9#.WGgWcn1pKwg & your supposed to ask me in what disipline? It was winning the biggest game of musical chairs.
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Old 31-12-2016, 20:55
gomezz
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As the certificate was presented immediately without actually knowing what the value would be then not unreasonable. The value could be added afterwards.
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Old 31-12-2016, 22:53
Brendan Mulcaky
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I usually enjoy these, but the lecturer is really letting them down.
I've recorded them. I've watched the first 2 so far. The second one really dragged. He's just not holding my attention. Too much umming & erring. It's like he doesn't know what's next or he's very nervous. I can understand the nerves, but he knew what he was taking on & he must've had an audition & rehearsals later.
He's not an interesting speaker.
I'd like Johnny Ball to do it!
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Old 31-12-2016, 23:05
LostFool
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I usually enjoy these, but the lecturer is really letting them down.
I had Saiful Islam as a lecturer in my undergrad days. He was incredibly boring when it comes to teaching University students so he probably wasn't the best choice to enthuse a room full of school kids.

Of all of the lecturers I ever had he is one of the last who I expected to turn up at the Royal Institution at Christmas.
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:51
brangdon
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Maybe that's a good idea. If the presenter doesn't understand what it is he/she is presenting, then they ask questions until they feel able to explain it to the viewing public.
There are plenty of shows like that. I feel the RI lectures should be different. They should be given by an expert in the relevant field, and they should include some recent research that we won't have seen elsewhere.
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Old 01-01-2017, 12:25
lundavra
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There are plenty of shows like that. I feel the RI lectures should be different. They should be given by an expert in the relevant field, and they should include some recent research that we won't have seen elsewhere.
I suppose one problem is that many academics and university lecturers are hopeless speakers / lecturers. They can be brilliant researchers but completely unable to talk on the subject in way that anyone can understand easily. When I was at university I got the impression that they were never tested or appraised on their lecturing ability. I would have hoped the RI would find people with a natural ability to engage and ducate the audience.

I go to an archaeological conference most years and you get some speakers who just read out their thesis whilst others can get up and talk with no notes and leave the audience wanting more.
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Old 01-01-2017, 12:48
Horza's Drone
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I had Saiful Islam as a lecturer in my undergrad days. He was incredibly boring when it comes to teaching University students so he probably wasn't the best choice to enthuse a room full of school kids.

Of all of the lecturers I ever had he is one of the last who I expected to turn up at the Royal Institution at Christmas.
I wonder why he was chosen then. You can never tell these days.
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