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2017 resolution for white guys
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johnny_boi_UK
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thiswillbefun:
“I can't because I don't know if you are.

What I am saying is that the spread of these "angry white male" videos, and the use of terms such as "white genocide" are part of the far right propaganda used for recruitment & to incite racial hatred.

When posted with terms such as "war against white men", or "pandering to the BLM", that shows a strong inference of your views.”

How is this video not pandering to the BLM crowd?

It puts the blame of all there own and the world's problems on the white man.

I'm still waiting on the 2017 resolution for the black lesbians but I'm guessing that won't be coming because that would be racist homophobic and sexist.
MARTYM8
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by johnny_boi_UK:
“How is this video not pandering to the BLM crowd?

It puts the blame of all there own and the world's problems on the white man.

I'm still waiting on the 2017 resolution for the black lesbians but I'm guessing that won't be coming because that would be racist homophobic and sexist.”

Clearly it's the fault of white men that African American men account for nearly 50 percent of murders in the US despite being only 6 percent of the US population - and also that an African American man is up to 70 times more likely to be killed by another African American civilian than a police officer.

Or black lives matter - but only in the less than 2 per cent of cases where they are killed by a white or Hispanic police officer (while generally they were committing a crime or had just done so) which is a good excuse to riot and trash African American businesses, cars and homes.

Facts and statistics matter too - and white men are clearly at fault as always.
oncemore
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“Nothing to do with minimising effects as far as I can see, more to do with ensuring the picture is in focus and encompasses the whole. Africans were taken as slaves by Britons, Britons were taken as slaves by Africans. I wonder whose ego is fragile and needs protecting?”

Oh please, of course it is. It's base whataboutism. People can talk about European imperialism and the slave trade and you trip over yourself pointing out other bits of history that make the European legacy of slavery and genocide not seem so out of place.

European colonialism was disastrous for native peoples the world over and has echoed through history for hundreds of years (we're still dealing with the legacy of slavery in the US and many other parts of the Americas). Your verdict that certain histories aren't important because bad stuff has happened in the past, is ridiculous. The fact that you see telling the history of colonized people and slavery as a zero-sum game with your own identity shows your fragility and your insecurity.
oncemore
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“Clearly it's the fault of white men that African American men account for nearly 50 percent of murders in the US despite being only 6 percent of the US population - and also that an African American man is up to 70 times more likely to be killed by another African American civilian than a police officer.

Or black lives matter - but only in the less than 2 per cent of cases where they are killed by a white or Hispanic police officer (while generally they were committing a crime or had just done so)!

Facts and statistics matter too - and white men are clearly at fault as always.”

Yeah because unequal enforcement of the law and discrimination within the justice system, or generational racism which has led to poverty / crime, etc play no part.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and instead you're just parroting racist memes.
MARTYM8
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by oncemore:
“Yeah because unequal enforcement of the law and discrimination within the justice system, or generational racism which has led to poverty / crime, etc play no part.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and instead you're just parroting racist memes.”

6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust - you don't see Jewish Americans having murder rates 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were treated badly.

1.5 million Irish died in the potato famine while the Brits exported food from Ireland. You don't see Irish Americans having a murder rate 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were starved to death. They weren't exactly welcomed to America either.

Eventially you do have to take ownership of what is happening in your communities today and stop blaming all your problems on everyone else! If you murder another person it's usually your fault - not because of what may have happened to an ancestor a century or more before. If you riot and trash your home town and burn down local businesses it's also your fault too - and no one else's.

The number of African American men killed by police is not statistically different to other ethnic groups when you take into account relative crime rates - but no one makes it a cause Celebre and an excuse to riot when white or Hispanic or Asian Americans die in such circumstances.

It has as much to do with fatherless homes as anything else - a lack of an older male father to teach them right from wrong. And nearly 70 per cent of African American men grow up without a father at home. And up to 85 per cent of those on jail on some statistics in the US come from fatherless homes.

These crime levels and murder rates were never this bad in the 1960s when you still had segregation and Jim Crow laws.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by oncemore:
“Oh please, of course it is. It's base whataboutism. People can talk about European imperialism and the slave trade and you trip over yourself pointing out other bits of history that make the European legacy of slavery and genocide not seem so out of place.

European colonialism was disastrous for native peoples the world over and has echoed through history for hundreds of years (we're still dealing with the legacy of slavery in the US and many other parts of the Americas). Your verdict that certain histories aren't important because bad stuff has happened in the past, is ridiculous. The fact that you see telling the history of colonized people and slavery as a zero-sum game with your own identity shows your fragility and your insecurity.”

Because you have slipped into the mode of calling it European as though all Europeans indulged and all Europeans have culpability. The fact that many Europeans were being forced into mills and down pits and up chimneys from a very early age at this juncture seems of little consequence in the vast business of blaming Europeans for the ills of the world. Shaka was directly responsible for the death of over 1 million Africans (many of other ethnic groups) and the torture of many of those before death (not to mention hundreds of Europeans). All of that in the space of about a dozen years.
Where have I said other histories do not matter? I was referring specifically to British history which some on here seem to think should focus on the bad people of British history and how slavery was the source of all wealth and all that we now have. I think it is a lot more complicated and not so full of good and bad people just people.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“That is opinion. Surviving off booty is what just about every country has done and the Empire between the wars was a net loss to the UK.”

Unless you count the infrastructure paid for by Empire booty.
Quote:
“The destruction of much infrastructure and the debts of war meant that I did not so much survive on the booty but was brought up by my relatives paying off large amounts of debt which I continued to pay off until just a few short years ago.”

You fail to appreciate the comfort you live in compared with almost everywhere else in the world, one big reason for that is the wealth we took from the empire.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“You do know how to search, this was easy enough, there are several more

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british...laves_01.shtml

Not sure why you are asking me some of the above.”

Because I see nothing in there or anywhere to justify your claim about UK coastal areas. One raid on Ireland is hardly significant nor relevant to the present day UK.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“Well I have previously linked you to what baby boomer were taught in terms of saving the planet. Do you recall the population bomb I linked you to. That was the thinking back then and that was passed on officially and unofficially in many classrooms.”

But not like the one child policy you seem to have absorbed from your education.
johnny_boi_UK
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust - you don't see Jewish Americans having murder rates 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were treated badly.

1.5 million Irish died in the potato famine while the Brits exported food from Ireland. You don't see Irish Americans having a murder rate 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were starved to death. They weren't exactly welcomed to America either.

Eventially you do have to take ownership of what is happening in your communities today and stop blaming all your problems on everyone else! If you murder another person it's usually your fault - not because of what may have happened to an ancestor a century or more before. If you riot and trash your home town and burn down local businesses it's also your fault too - and no one else's.

The number of African American men killed by police is not statistically different to other ethnic groups when you take into account relative crime rates - but no one makes it a cause Celebre and an excuse to riot when white or Hispanic or Asian Americans die in such circumstances.

It has as much to do with fatherless homes as anything else - a lack of an older male father to teach them right from wrong. And nearly 70 per cent of African American men grow up without a father at home. And up to 85 per cent of those on jail on some statistics in the US come from fatherless homes.

These crime levels and murder rates were never this bad in the 1960s when you still had segregation and Jim Crow laws.”

One group you missed out are those from the far east, who came from destitution and are now the most affluent of all demographics in the west.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“...slavery was the source of all wealth and all that we now have...”

Strawmanning. Getting desperate?
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“But not like the one child policy you seem to have absorbed from your education.”

Where have I ever said a one child policy, I have stated quite clearly that we were encouraged to save the planet with population control. Replace one's self with the occasional one for luck.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“Strawmanning. Getting desperate?”

Well what are you saying?
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“Because I see nothing in there or anywhere to justify your claim about UK coastal areas. One raid on Ireland is hardly significant nor relevant to the present day UK.”

Then you have not read the whole link which is hardly my fault.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by oncemore:
“Yeah because unequal enforcement of the law and discrimination within the justice system, or generational racism which has led to poverty / crime, etc play no part.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and instead you're just parroting racist memes.”

That works against the lower classes, where have you been?
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“Well what are you saying?”

Originally Posted by andykn:
“...one big reason...”

I.e. there are other reasons for our wealth besides empire. Do you really need basic English explaining like that?
MARTYM8
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by johnny_boi_UK:
“One group you missed out are those from the far east, who came from destitution and are now the most affluent of all demographics in the west.”

They also have the lowest rate of single parent families of any group and strong family units generally.

Only 8 per cent of African American families where the parents are married live in poverty - one third of the rate of whites in single parent families and one sixth of the rate of African Americans who live in single parent families.

You want to solve the problems - make it the job of fathers to look after their kids not the government as it used to be. Crime rates were a lot lower then too.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“Unless you count the infrastructure paid for by Empire booty.

You fail to appreciate the comfort you live in compared with almost everywhere else in the world, one big reason for that is the wealth we took from the empire.”

Which infrastructure do you mean?

I appreciate the comfort I live in only too well, it is not comparable to the comfort that Saudi Princes live in, Japanese Emperors, North Korean dictators, Chinese party members, Russian Oligarchs, or even Islington Labour party members and the debt building it was repaid by many of my relatives as well as by myself and my family.
I see the wealth taken from Empire alive in many country estates throughout the UK where I, and many like me, are excluded or have to pay to see it. The infrastructure was built and paid for by those who used that infrastructure the most over time which was servants, tradesmen, agricultural workers etc. You seem to forget that people going into service and trading much of their life is only about two generations ago. Many early baby boomers were employed as live in staff. Not so bad as generations before them but still beyond the ken of many here.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“Then you have not read the whole link which is hardly my fault.”

I did, I still see no significant impact on British sea ports, a few thousand people at most over a few decades.
andykn
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Blairdennon:
“Which infrastructure do you mean?

I appreciate the comfort I live in only too well, it is not comparable to the comfort that Saudi Princes live in, Japanese Emperors, North Korean dictators, Chinese party members, Russian Oligarchs, or even Islington Labour party members”

You do know Islington is quite a poor borough, don't you?
Quote:
“ and the debt building it was repaid by many of my relatives as well as by myself and my family.
I see the wealth taken from Empire alive in many country estates throughout the UK where I, and many like me, are excluded or have to pay to see it. The infrastructure was built and paid for by those who used that infrastructure the most over time which was servants, tradesmen, agricultural workers etc. You seem to forget that people going into service and trading much of their life is only about two generations ago. Many early baby boomers were employed as live in staff. Not so bad as generations before them but still beyond the ken of many here.”

But those who were working in service in a fine house were still far better off than their counterparts in most of the rest of the Empire.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“I.e. there are other reasons for our wealth besides empire. Do you really need basic English explaining like that?”

Well I was replying to your basic English in post 80 where 'one big reason' was not in evidence just one reason.

'Er, because it's not our history, the slavery that created the wealth of Bristol and Liverpool is.'
oncemore
28-12-2016
This thread is a little too bigoted to take very seriously, digitalspy's cadre of white guys telling people how to feel about race is out in full force.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by andykn:
“You do know Islington is quite a poor borough, don't you?


But those who were working in service in a fine house were still far better off than their counterparts in most of the rest of the Empire.”

Yes, well what if it is? How does that counter what I said?

However those who worked in the pits, mills and were flung up chimneys were not and strange as it may seem they actually played little or no part in Empire building and also received the same level of trickle down of profits as those in Empire. As one British official said as he became the assistant to a Maharajah. The Maharajah studied English society, we got on with the job of clearing slums, building roads, improving drainage and building schools. It is forever arguable how India would have been had the British not been there but it is clear that it was the British that invested in the infrastructure of India and provided the basis of Indian civil service, law and education.
Blairdennon
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by oncemore:
“This thread is a little too bigoted to take very seriously, digitalspy's cadre of white guys telling people how to feel about race is out in full force.”

Why is it wrong to ask people not to consider white guys as a whole having a specific outlook? I do not think black guys have a specific outlook and if I did I would be called out on it. I thought affixing an attribute of any sort to all people of a race/ethnicity was a racist concept.
oncemore
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MARTYM8:
“6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust - you don't see Jewish Americans having murder rates 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were treated badly.

1.5 million Irish died in the potato famine while the Brits exported food from Ireland. You don't see Irish Americans having a murder rate 8 times their population share cos their ancestors were starved to death. They weren't exactly welcomed to America either.

Eventially you do have to take ownership of what is happening in your communities today and stop blaming all your problems on everyone else! If you murder another person it's usually your fault - not because of what may have happened to an ancestor a century or more before. If you riot and trash your home town and burn down local businesses it's also your fault too - and no one else's.

The number of African American men killed by police is not statistically different to other ethnic groups when you take into account relative crime rates - but no one makes it a cause Celebre and an excuse to riot when white or Hispanic or Asian Americans die in such circumstances.

It has as much to do with fatherless homes as anything else - a lack of an older male father to teach them right from wrong. And nearly 70 per cent of African American men grow up without a father at home. And up to 85 per cent of those on jail on some statistics in the US come from fatherless homes.

These crime levels and murder rates were never this bad in the 1960s when you still had segregation and Jim Crow laws.”

The fact that you just sub minority groups in and out and use them in order to justify racism against a certain group is very telling.

Broken homes are an issue, laws targeting petty crimes and then rolling them up into larger sentencing, generational poverty caused by discriminatory policies, racial profiling and stop/frisk policing, and on and on and on. but you're just going out of your way to blame all of the issues a certain community is facing on that community and not also the society and culture in which that community is situated.

of course, this is your typical response to any issue involving minority groups so its hardly surprising.
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