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Inroducing 'clean Brexit' and its billions in savings
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MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by gateaux:
“Yes you did”

No, I didn't.
TelevisionUser
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by Miasima Goria:
“It seems scrapping some 'burdensome regulations' along with leaving the EU, customs union etc will result in saving £450 million a week,

Sign me up! I wonder what the 100 or so regulations are? Who cares! Think of all that lolly! I had a look on the Change Britain website and can't see the research, but I trust Gove. And Boris is involved. Obviously.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ro-leave-group

A pressure group backed by a string of former Vote Leave campaigners from Michael Gove to Gisela Stuart has claimed that exiting the EU with a “clean Brexit” could save the country £450m a week.

The report from Change Britain claims the UK economy could benefit by £24bn a year by leaving the single market and customs union, calling this scenario a “clean Brexit”.

It argues that in a likely outcome this would deliver annual savings of £10.4bn from contributions to the EU budget and £1.2bn from scrapping “burdensome regulations” while allowing the UK to forge new trade deals worth £12.3bn.
”

...i.e. goodbye to the existing fragmented worker protection legislation and hello to more zero hours contract, economic insecurity and longer hours for no pay.
Betty Middling
27-12-2016
Seriously, how much of a moron do you have to be to believe this guff?
MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“...i.e. goodbye to the existing fragmented worker protection legislation and hello to more zero hours contract, economic insecurity and longer hours for no pay.”

All of which has happened while we're in your beloved EU.
TelevisionUser
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“All of which has happened while we're in your beloved EU. ”

it is successive Tory and Labour governments that did that since they chose not to go beyond the minimum requirements hence today's low pay and insecure gig economy. You might care to get your fact right first before posting yet more Leave espoo.
andykn
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“You might care to get your fact right first before posting yet more Leave espoo.”

Good luck with that...
MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“it is successive Tory and Labour governments that did that since they chose not to go beyond the minimum requirements hence today's low pay and insecure gig economy. You might care to get your fact right first before posting yet more Leave espoo.”

You make the EU out to be our saviour, yet all these things have happened while we've been in it. Not just to us, but across the EU. I notice you skirt over that.
Mr Oleo Strut
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by sangreal:
“Up until 2012, EU net migration was still in the tens of thousands.

The latest official government report is:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulat...report/dec2016

Scroll down to Figure 2: Net Long-Term International Migration by citizenship, UK, 1975 to 2016

Net Migration
1995: Non-EU = 104k | EU = 23k (-51k Brits, Total = 76k)
1999: Non-EU = 179k | EU = 8k
2001: Non-EU = 213k | EU = 7k (-48k Brits, Total = 172k)
2004: Non-EU = 266k | EU = 87k (A8 year)
2008: Non-EU = 187k | EU = 63k (-87k Brits, Total = 163k)
2010: Non-EU = 217k | EU = 77k
2012: Non-EU: 157k | EU = 82k
2013: Non-EU: 142k | EU = 123k
2014: Non-EU: 194k | EU = 174k
2015: Non-EU: 189k | EU = 184k (-40k Brits | Total = 333k)
2016: Non-EU = 196k | EU = 189k (-49k Brits | Total = 336k)


There's the proof to show that EU net migration was still in the tens of thousands up until 2012, whilst non-EU net migration has been around the 200k mark ever since 1999.


The graphs are interactive, so there's no direct link to an image.
But for the purpose of ease/clarity, for proof, we can also use a link to the graph from the previous report...
https://www.ons.gov.uk/resource?uri=...6/55416447.png


Net migration has reached record levels under THIS government, more than double than it was under Labour !!!


Also note how emigration is down by over 100k since 2008, which massively effects the net migration figure:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/resource?uri=...6/00920326.png

Why does no-one mention this? Because it doesn't suit their agenda!


Also note figure 4: EU immigration to the UK, 2006 to 2016
https://www.ons.gov.uk/resource?uri=...6/2a15c919.png

Note how the highest number of EU immigrants (125k and 49% of all EU) are coming from the original 15 EU countries, whereas those coming from the 2004 A8 countries has been going down quite considerably, and even those coming from the 2012 accession countries (Ro & Bu) was negligible until 2 years ago (but has now risen to over 60k).


As for why EU and overall net migration has shot up under the Tories.....

In 2012, then Home Secretary Theresa May placed a 35k salary cap on non-EU workers, meaning that we could then only hire unskilled workers from the EU.

Since 2012, there's been a huge increase in UK Employment Agencies advertising jobs only in East Europe and mass-recruiting workers directly under ZHCs and apprenticeships

How British Employers Are Fuelling Romanian Immigration As Available Jobs Outstrip Number Of Candidates

The job agencies that prefer foreign workers

Why is Next hiring thousands of cheap Eastern European workers to staff English warehouse - in area where more than 200,000 are on the dole - before they even advertise the jobs here?

British workers snubbed by recruiters advertising jobs abroad


WANTED workers...but ONLY if you're POLISH: Migrants being offered work AHEAD of Britons


....and the cherry on top

Fast Recruitment Agency UK



More UK employment agencies who've been advertsising in and recruiting en masse directly from Eastern Europe over the past 2 or 3 years - thousands of unskilled jobs paying apprenticeship wages or ZHCs (though some are also skilled positions) - all contributing to the more than doubling of EU to UK net migration since 2012:

http://www.cestaffing.co.uk
http://www.recruitment.easterneuropeans.co.uk
http://easypoland.co.uk
http://www.csarecruitment.co.uk
http://www.my-resource.co.uk
http://www.agencycentral.co.uk


The only one who's said they'll put a stop to it is Corbyn, not that he's ever likely to be in a position to do anything about it. The Tories and/or any other neoliberal government, however, will never deny British employers (namely big business) a cheap source of labour. If they can't get them from the EU, then they'll just go back to getting them from the poorer Commonwealth countries instead.

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Nick Timothy, former Chief of Staff to Theresa May, who's said that the Tories aren't really aiming to reduce immigration and are deliberately keeping it high to boost the economy:
http://www.conservativehome.com/thec...proved-it.html

How fortunate for them that they've been able to blame it all on the EU.
Who will they blame when they've run out of people/things to blame?
Maybe then, the British public will finally see them and their cohorts for what they really are!”

Well done, sangreal. You have exposed the utter lies of the Tory and Brexit immigration claims. They have lied through their teeth and the gullible believed them. We are indeed governed by a shabby bunch of liars.
.
TelevisionUser
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“You make the EU out to be our saviour, yet all these things have happened while we've been in it. Not just to us, but across the EU. I notice you skirt over that.”

You are doing the classic thing of telling me what I think and believe which is the trickery of the Spandau propagandist.

I happen to think that the EU is flawed and in need of reform, that the UK should have cooperated with nordic and east European countries to promote that reform and all Brexit is is a crude and destructive response. Many EU states, like France, Germany, etc. have gone beyond EU minimum employment rights and that's the responsibility of national governments including those of the UK and that is where the real fault lies.
GibsonSG
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Can you highlight the bit where it says this is government policy and we will get rid of all those things? No doubt we may leave some, but nowhere does it say all. It suits your anti British narrative though, doesn't it?”

Broken record old bean. People who are British can't be anti British, it don't work.
Thiswillbefun
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Missing the point again to suit your own remoaner narrative.”

Your point being that everyone else should pay higher taxes, higher prices in the shops, quadruple the price you paid for your house, pay for healthcare, and all on the low pay of the strawberry picker. But as long as you're not affected.
Eurostar
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by Mr Oleo Strut:
“Well done, sangreal. You have exposed the utter lies of the Tory and Brexit immigration claims. They have lied through their teeth and the gullible believed them. We are indeed governed by a shabby bunch of liars.
.”

Indeed, the whole 'EU freedom of movement is a major crisis threatening the UK' line is primarily a con job, but all too willingly lapped up by what seems like millions of people. The architects of the Brexit campaign said after the referendum they deliberately looked for issues that they knew would energise the public and immigration was something that they knew would do the trick. This is why they and their pals in the media played it up to the max.
MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by GibsonSG:
“Broken record old bean. People who are British can't be anti British, it don't work.”

Lol. Hilarious. Of course it's possible for a Briton to be Anti British. You've obviously never met a liberal lefty Guardianista from Islington. They're quite often Anti British to the core. They hate everything their own country stands for.
MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by Thiswillbefun:
“Your point being that everyone else should pay higher taxes, higher prices in the shops, quadruple the price you paid for your house, pay for healthcare, and all on the low pay of the strawberry picker. But as long as you're not affected.”

I never said any of that and you know it. And Brexit will quadruple the price of your house. Gosh, remoaners are weird.
MTUK1
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“You are doing the classic thing of telling me what I think and believe which is the trickery of the Spandau propagandist.

I happen to think that the EU is flawed and in need of reform, that the UK should have cooperated with nordic and east European countries to promote that reform and all Brexit is is a crude and destructive response. Many EU states, like France, Germany, etc. have gone beyond EU minimum employment rights and that's the responsibility of national governments including those of the UK and that is where the real fault lies.”

The EU has proven itself incapable of any reform. So that's a non starter.
Icaraa
27-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Good. We should get off our own backsides and have our own do those jobs.”

You really need to get real. No one who was born in this country will do those jobs. If they attempted to they'd last 5 minutes too.

Originally Posted by TelevisionUser:
“it is successive Tory and Labour governments that did that since they chose not to go beyond the minimum requirements hence today's low pay and insecure gig economy. You might care to get your fact right first before posting yet more Leave espoo.”

I've always said that the so called gig economy is just HMRC not upholding their own existing rules on self employment. They need to be taking people and companies to court for making people pretend to be self employed when they aren't. That's all down to the government who could make HMRC sort this out if they wanted to.

The cases against Hermes and Uber recently should have been taken to court by HMRC rather than members of the public.
MTUK1
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Icaraa:
“You really need to get real. No one who was born in this country will do those jobs. If they attempted to they'd last 5 minutes too.



I've always said that the so called gig economy is just HMRC not upholding their own existing rules on self employment. They need to be taking people and companies to court for making people pretend to be self employed when they aren't. That's all down to the government who could make HMRC sort this out if they wanted to.

The cases against Hermes and Uber recently should have been taken to court by HMRC rather than members of the public.”

Yep, that's because successive governments have made it more attractive for able bodied people to sit at home on the dole then take a job. Who do you think did these jobs in the 50's and 60's? It wasn't largely immigrants. Before you start on me, I am not anti benefits. I am anti paying benefits to able bodied people who milk the system and not work. If you have a genuine illness and or a disability which means you can't work then I'm fine with benefits being paid. I'm not fine with spongers.
i4u
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Yep, that's because successive governments have made it more attractive for able bodied people to sit at home on the dole then take a job. Who do you think did these jobs in the 50's and 60's? It wasn't largely immigrants. Before you start on me, I am not anti benefits. I am anti paying benefits to able bodied people who milk the system and not work. If you have a genuine illness and or a disability which means you can't work then I'm fine with benefits being paid. I'm not fine with spongers.”

It was immigrants from the West Indies, who because of their colour were forced in to taking the jobs the white folk would not do. You and your kin were so welcoming to members of the commonwealth that race relation laws had to be introduced, or as you might call them political correctness.

I assume you are not British and unaware of this countries fine traditions that are upheld by organisations such as the National Front, BNP and EDL.
voteout
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Good. We should get off our own backsides and have our own do those jobs.”

Fine, I'm assuming you'll be first in the queue for these jobs. Lead by example.
Miasima Goria
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Lol. Hilarious. Of course it's possible for a Briton to be Anti British. You've obviously never met a liberal lefty Guardianista from Islington. They're quite often Anti British to the core. They hate everything their own country stands for.”

Oh go on, tell us what you think it is to be anti-British.
MTUK1
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by voteout:
“Fine, I'm assuming you'll be first in the queue for these jobs. Lead by example.”

A job is a job. If you can't find employment, you should take anything you can get. Did immigrants do fruit picking jobs in the 60's?
MTUK1
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by Miasima Goria:
“Oh go on, tell us what you think it is to be anti-British. ”

Someone who apologizes profusely for our history. Someone who thinks we can't function in the world unless the EU makes our laws.
MTUK1
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by i4u:
“It was immigrants from the West Indies, who because of their colour were forced in to taking the jobs the white folk would not do. You and your kin were so welcoming to members of the commonwealth that race relation laws had to be introduced, or as you might call them political correctness.

I assume you are not British and unaware of this countries fine traditions that are upheld by organisations such as the National Front, BNP and EDL.”

I am British. And I know this will blow your liberal lefty mind, I'm mixed race.
Icaraa
28-12-2016
Originally Posted by MTUK1:
“Yep, that's because successive governments have made it more attractive for able bodied people to sit at home on the dole then take a job. Who do you think did these jobs in the 50's and 60's? It wasn't largely immigrants. Before you start on me, I am not anti benefits. I am anti paying benefits to able bodied people who milk the system and not work. If you have a genuine illness and or a disability which means you can't work then I'm fine with benefits being paid. I'm not fine with spongers.”

You can't compare now to the 50s and 60s! Come on man, get real!

We are a far wealthier, more developed country now.
paulschapman
28-12-2016
And how much will be lost by a decline in exports?
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