I quite liked this-,my expectations were quite low though due to how terrible the previous few were.
The wife doesn't really work as an "assistant" though.
The wife doesn't really work as an "assistant" though.
Jonathan Creek
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Originally Posted by Baz_James:
“What gas? It was oil. Presumably closing the doors automatically stopped further supplies and extinguished the fire otherwise what was the point of them being there at all? What else were they going to put it out with ... their bare hands? It must have been them that called the police so it's not like they just walked away and left it like nothing had happened.”
“What gas? It was oil. Presumably closing the doors automatically stopped further supplies and extinguished the fire otherwise what was the point of them being there at all? What else were they going to put it out with ... their bare hands? It must have been them that called the police so it's not like they just walked away and left it like nothing had happened.”
I thought it was meant to be a more refined product like petrol, we saw a clear liquid coming out the nozzles when Jonathan nudged the tap on. (Which was my first issue)
Completely over-analysing a small throwaway detail here but, If the "on" valve for the flame pit is in the flame pit, how on earth do you put it out? Closing the cover may starve the fire of oxygen, but when you open the cover again after a sufficient time after it has gone out, you'd need to lean into the pit full of flammable liquid to turn that nozzle off again.
And then they burnt a bloke to death and walked off.
Originally Posted by gemini666:
“I don't know why they didn't just leave him there and close the lid without setting him alight.”
“I don't know why they didn't just leave him there and close the lid without setting him alight.”
Because he was clutching Jonathan's leg keeping him in the pit. If the lid had been closed at that point Jonathan would either have been stuck in it with his assailant or crushed between the doors. They had to get him to release his grip so that Jonathan could get out.
Originally Posted by Vetinari:
“This is a problem that you see, even in serious drama.
People who, in reality, would be, at least temporarily, deeply upset, if not technically traumatised.
People who have had a friend/workmate/relative murdered appearing completely emotionally detached seconds after being told.
Presumably it would just make the dramatic flow impossibly messy if you had people behaving even slightly more realistically.”
“This is a problem that you see, even in serious drama.
People who, in reality, would be, at least temporarily, deeply upset, if not technically traumatised.
People who have had a friend/workmate/relative murdered appearing completely emotionally detached seconds after being told.
Presumably it would just make the dramatic flow impossibly messy if you had people behaving even slightly more realistically.”
Speak to any policeman who has had to pass on such news and they will tell you that people normally do not act anything like you expect them to. Detachment, essentially denial, is pretty much always the first reaction and can last for hours and even days. People simply don't, as a rule, burst into tears or collapse in a heap. So If we're talking reality the Creeks' reaction is much closer to it than most.
Originally Posted by seawitch:
“I'm in the "not quite vintage but a lot better than many recent episodes" camp.
My thoughts: Mr and Mrs Creek need to "consciously uncouple". The wife is just too bland and she doesn't really work as a foil.
Jonathan needs to live somewhere a bit more atmospheric. Perhaps not back to the windmill but possibly he could live in a watermill or a gothic church conversion. (found for him by the Warwick Davies character).
Warwick Davies's character is great and needs to return. I agree about the surfeit of vicar detectives but he could be popping in and out. My suggestion is that he helps Creek get over his divorce/separation by introducing Creek to his niece (who turns out in a reverse cliché expectation to be a gorgeous 6ft ex-model) and she becomes Creek's new accomplice.”
“I'm in the "not quite vintage but a lot better than many recent episodes" camp.
My thoughts: Mr and Mrs Creek need to "consciously uncouple". The wife is just too bland and she doesn't really work as a foil.
Jonathan needs to live somewhere a bit more atmospheric. Perhaps not back to the windmill but possibly he could live in a watermill or a gothic church conversion. (found for him by the Warwick Davies character).
Warwick Davies's character is great and needs to return. I agree about the surfeit of vicar detectives but he could be popping in and out. My suggestion is that he helps Creek get over his divorce/separation by introducing Creek to his niece (who turns out in a reverse cliché expectation to be a gorgeous 6ft ex-model) and she becomes Creek's new accomplice.”
In real life Warwick and Alan are about the same age (Alan a bit older I think) therefore maybe Warwick could have a taller sister. How about Gwendoline Christie
?Warwick was really the stand out performance for me and I think there is definitely some mileage in that character. If not as a vicar then perhaps he could go through some crisis of faith. I can't remember what was said but is the vicar character married though?
I thought this episode was confirmed to be last ever to be made?
I will happily watch more, though.
I just looked up Sheridan Smith, who I thought was a great sidekick. She was only in three episodes. Could have sworn she was in many more.
I will happily watch more, though.
I just looked up Sheridan Smith, who I thought was a great sidekick. She was only in three episodes. Could have sworn she was in many more.
Originally Posted by Liete:
“I quite liked this-,my expectations were quite low though due to how terrible the previous few were.
The wife doesn't really work as an "assistant" though.”
“I quite liked this-,my expectations were quite low though due to how terrible the previous few were.
The wife doesn't really work as an "assistant" though.”
The one with the Sherlock character was awful.
But I really liked the one with the (presumably) male escort, and the genious woman being kidnapped.
Originally Posted by Versailles:
“I thought this episode was confirmed to be last ever to be made?
:”
“I thought this episode was confirmed to be last ever to be made?
:”
Not confirmed at all. Warwick Davis used a slightly unfortunate turn of phrase in an interview and everybody put 2 and 2 together and made pie! Alan Davies has subsequently said that it's entirely up to David Renwick (from whom we have not heard on the subject) whether he's ready to retire or has more stories in him..
The wife seems to be there just to moan. Not the most flattering portrait of the fairer sex!
David Renwick is a talented writer. Has a great imagination. Perhaps he should do one final episode of Jonathan Creek where Jonathan is killed off only to make an amazing 'I'm not really dead' appearance at the end!
David Renwick is a talented writer. Has a great imagination. Perhaps he should do one final episode of Jonathan Creek where Jonathan is killed off only to make an amazing 'I'm not really dead' appearance at the end!
Originally Posted by spikewoman:
“In real life Warwick and Alan are about the same age (Alan a bit older I think) therefore maybe Warwick could have a taller sister. How about Gwendoline Christie?
Warwick was really the stand out performance for me and I think there is definitely some mileage in that character. If not as a vicar then perhaps he could go through some crisis of faith. I can't remember what was said but is the vicar character married though?”
“In real life Warwick and Alan are about the same age (Alan a bit older I think) therefore maybe Warwick could have a taller sister. How about Gwendoline Christie
?Warwick was really the stand out performance for me and I think there is definitely some mileage in that character. If not as a vicar then perhaps he could go through some crisis of faith. I can't remember what was said but is the vicar character married though?”
Ha. That was the first name I thought of after reading the post you quoted.
I'm with the general consensus that this wasn't vintage, but was still a vast improvement. I'd say it's the best episode since Julia Sawalha left actually. The comedy was perfectly pitched, rather than the OTT slapstick we had in Series 5 with all the local villagers they met; and the big reveal of how the room worked was satisfying (even if I'd guessed it earlier)
To echo a previous poster though, it's the lack of focus on one main mystery which makes the newer episodes less coherent. Jonathan said in this episode, and I'm sure I've heard him say it in previous episodes, "How does it fit together". For me, that sums up the problem - we have no idea how all these rands threads got together, rather than (in earlier episodes) mainly wondering how something was accomplished.
Still, very enjoyable and I'd definitely watch another.
To echo a previous poster though, it's the lack of focus on one main mystery which makes the newer episodes less coherent. Jonathan said in this episode, and I'm sure I've heard him say it in previous episodes, "How does it fit together". For me, that sums up the problem - we have no idea how all these rands threads got together, rather than (in earlier episodes) mainly wondering how something was accomplished.
Still, very enjoyable and I'd definitely watch another.
Originally Posted by FluxCapacitor:
“I'm with the general consensus that this wasn't vintage, but was still a vast improvement. I'd say it's the best episode since Julia Sawalha left actually.”
“I'm with the general consensus that this wasn't vintage, but was still a vast improvement. I'd say it's the best episode since Julia Sawalha left actually.”
This is definitely not the general consensus. It was poor.
Originally Posted by Baz_James:
“Not confirmed at all. Warwick Davis used a slightly unfortunate turn of phrase in an interview and everybody put 2 and 2 together and made pie! Alan Davies has subsequently said that it's entirely up to David Renwick (from whom we have not heard on the subject) whether he's ready to retire or has more stories in him..”
“Not confirmed at all. Warwick Davis used a slightly unfortunate turn of phrase in an interview and everybody put 2 and 2 together and made pie! Alan Davies has subsequently said that it's entirely up to David Renwick (from whom we have not heard on the subject) whether he's ready to retire or has more stories in him..”
Aha, thank you. Good news
My expectations were low but it was unexpectedly good, well-written and well-acted. It left me wanting more. Warwick Davis in particular was excellent. Still can't warm to the wife mainly because I can't see how she and Jonathan connect or could ever have connected in any dimension 
The final scene where the miniature letters were revealed and then crushed was quite poetic.
The final scene where the miniature letters were revealed and then crushed was quite poetic.
Originally Posted by Messaroundabit:
“This is definitely not the general consensus. It was poor.”
“This is definitely not the general consensus. It was poor.”
It is the general consensus, you are an outlier.
We watched this last night and decided early on that it was yet another not-very-good 'special'. Far too much padding and faffing around, it was almost as if they'd told David Renwick to write a standard 50-odd minute script and then at the last minute decided it should be feature-length. It's a 2/5 from me.
I enjoyed it, it wasn't classic Creek but it was never going to be. The problem I had with the episode was that it took FAR too long for Jonathan to get involved in the mystery. It was annoying knowing that it was going on and Jonathan was just going through stuff from the windmill and his annoying wife was just staying silent about it.
It was a little heartbreaking seeing Jonathan going through all sorts of magic stuff from the windmill, it was like they was trying to say it is the end of an era kind of thing. I didn't get the significance of the whole fairies with his brother (that was the first we have ever heard of a brother isn't it?) and I hope someone can tell me what the actually point of it was.
I echo other people who said Warrick Davies was the highlight of the whole episode, they need to persuade him to stay around. He worked so well off Jonathan that it was almost as if they had been in the show together before for a while.
The mystery got me wondering to be honest along with the "phone-y" part and I never clicked who the main person behind it all was. The Anti-Money part I didn't click onto but that's probably because I didn't know about Antimoney.
It was a little heartbreaking seeing Jonathan going through all sorts of magic stuff from the windmill, it was like they was trying to say it is the end of an era kind of thing. I didn't get the significance of the whole fairies with his brother (that was the first we have ever heard of a brother isn't it?) and I hope someone can tell me what the actually point of it was.
I echo other people who said Warrick Davies was the highlight of the whole episode, they need to persuade him to stay around. He worked so well off Jonathan that it was almost as if they had been in the show together before for a while.
The mystery got me wondering to be honest along with the "phone-y" part and I never clicked who the main person behind it all was. The Anti-Money part I didn't click onto but that's probably because I didn't know about Antimoney.
Originally Posted by Lab:
“Ha. That was the first name I thought of after reading the post you quoted.”
“Ha. That was the first name I thought of after reading the post you quoted.”
Yes, Gwendoline has the right degree of quirky about her too. I love the way she carries her height with pride and confidence and doesn't shy away from heels. Gwendoline in heels would be about 3ft taller than Warwick. Another tall actress that would fit well with the genre is Tilda Swinton.
Another thumbs up for Warwick Davis here. He looked like he genuinely relished playing the vicar, bringing a real personality to what could have been a two-dimensional stereotype. Every time he stepped into shot the show picked up a bit.
Originally Posted by Messaroundabit:
“I agree with the general consensus that it was poor.”
“I agree with the general consensus that it was poor.”
And where have you got this "general consensus" from?
If from this thread then most comment contributors said they enjoyed it more than they thought they would or very much enjoyed it full stop. Admitting it wasn't the best JC ever certainly isn't saying it was poor.
Most comments in this thread surround plot details where trying to find motives and picking holes is a big part of the pleasure.
Originally Posted by Inkblot:
“Another thumbs up for Warwick Davis here. He looked like he genuinely relished playing the vicar, bringing a real personality to what could have been a two-dimensional stereotype. Every time he stepped into shot the show picked up a bit.”
“Another thumbs up for Warwick Davis here. He looked like he genuinely relished playing the vicar, bringing a real personality to what could have been a two-dimensional stereotype. Every time he stepped into shot the show picked up a bit.”
Totally agree, I'm not even particularly a fan of Warwick but thought he was the stand out performance of the show. Jonathan should ditch his wife and go into crime solving with Warwick instead.
I enjoyed the episode apart from my one gripe of them burning a man to death and not even batting an eyelid!
Really enjoyed that - Warwick Davies was brilliant. I was waiting for it to be the cliche of "the vicar did it", but so glad he didn't I love how you have to just leave sense at the door with Jonathan Creek and go with it - you enjoy it when you do. My only gripe was that it took JC six years to get the "Anti-Money" reference. It took me 6 seconds, lol! Although to befair, I knew it was something about antimony, but didn't get the punchline initials.
I love how you have to just leave sense at the door with Jonathan Creek and go with it - you enjoy it when you do. My only gripe was that it took JC six years to get the "Anti-Money" reference. It took me 6 seconds, lol! Although to befair, I knew it was something about antimony, but didn't get the punchline initials.
Thought this was really good. However, I do agree with the comments about Polly. Also, I think there s still plenty of potential in Jonathan Creek, but to do so it would have to go back to having an actual series , with one hour episodes.
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