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History; Fact of Fiction?


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Old 29-12-2016, 17:21
David_Flett1
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Just pointing out that you can take things too far. There are historical facts, and there are historical theories, and there's legends. Making sure you know what type of history you are dealing with is important. A trip to the battlegrounds of WW1 and 2, and taking in the death camps is something anyone who can afford it should do, for instance. You can, like doubting Thomas himself, stick your fingers in the wounds. The rationale behind it is less clear, perhaps.
And I think it should be pointed out that there was no evidence in the bold text or the entire post from the O/P that indicated anything about the Holocaust. However it isn't surprising that someone somewhere will associate such a post as denying the Holocaust. I'm only sorry that Flash525 even had to respond to such replies as it was one of the more interesting threads I have read recently.
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Old 30-12-2016, 10:33
mushymanrob
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But can some evidence not be kept back? Just because there is proof of something, doesn't necessarily mean it's widely acknowledged, shared, or accepted.

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thats stretching it a bit, and who but an idiot wouldnt accept proven evidence?
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Old 30-12-2016, 12:16
nattoyaki
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As a history graduate I'm sad to say that most 'history' is at best biased, and at worst either tainted, false or covered up entirely. The suppression of history is a huge crime in my book.

There's just too much important stuff to be learned by rote for GCSE for any kind of questioning to be encouraged on the part of students (well there was in my time, 25 years ago so things may have changed, albeit it at a 'good' school). Luckily we had excellent A-level teachers who did present both sides (e.g. the Robert Kennedy assassination) and leave us to decide for ourselves/research further.

My history degree (good uni) was very mixed. The visiting American studies professor was superb, as were others, and so was the library. The British political professor was a complete brainwashing fool who only doled out the official British establishment version of the 20th century. Luckily I ignored him and the strength of my work, knowledge and research from A-levels meant he would have worn a very sour look on his face when he had to give my essays tearing Thatcher apart a first

Wikipedia's a big problem imo as it's useful but is now being used as a source, where 'history' is the version that the most vocal/influential disagree about the least.

erm.... evidence?... some things are quite easy to prove beyond all reasonable doubt, other things arent. but like any science, its only as accurate as the current evidence suggests.

many historical events have been re-appraised and altered as new evidence is discovered.

so yes, they should be taught as 'the truth' when there is no reasonable doubt about an event. where there is some doubt, phrases like 'this is what we believe to have happened' would be correct.
Completely agree, which is why I can't often look at the news these days. They present the 'facts' within minutes/hours, and then with straight faces when new info come to light often report different 'facts' just a little while later, mostly without a 'contrary to our earlier report' correction they used to use. And that's without going into all the news they choose not to report in the first place (some of it 'rather' major)!

Recently I read the BBC piece about 'fake news' and the Podesta emails connected to Clinton. They reported that Clinton had 'never met' the owner of that rather dubious pizza place in Washington. It would take a team of journalists months if not years to establish that one line as likely fact (in fact it could never be proven) but they knock it out in days, say it's the truth, and base a whole article around it.

Just one small example, but it's incredibly common, and these things, in history, are crucial.
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