I've read quite a few articles by some in the Morning Star in the run up to the referendum - I'll post an article next time I come across one.

The extreme left especially do not place any value on manual workers and relied on the fact that whoever we voted into power in our own democratic elections, the EU's socialist elite could and would overrule them [the lawfully elected government] whenever it wanted.

It didn't last time, why do you expect it to be different this time?

Yet if the German (and French) steel producers can survive why can't ours? Your argument makes no sense.

Can't you remember even one name?

You do write a lot of old tosh. What qualifies you to be an expert on the 'extreme left', apart from your own prejudice and what you are force-fed by the right-wing media? As for democracy, our own flawed system does protect us - maybe not perfectly, from outside influence. Also all tiers of the EU are either directly elected or appointed by elected representatives, and the EU itself, far from perfect, has achieved in its short life a remarkable degree of unity and success, despite the relentless carping and obstruction of people like yourself. But it's pointless trying to steer you to the truth, I suspect you are too blinkered to see it. To finish off, you display your ignorance in startling fashion as regards UK fishing. The facts are that the UK consumes mostly white fish from distant waters and doesn't care who fishes them. European stocks are improving after centuries of over-fishing, and the nominally UK fishing fleet, much depleted, is now substantially operated by foreigners operating under a UK flag of convenience. I suggest that in future you take a bit of time to study the facts before making a fool of yourself. Happy New Year!

Who are you defining as the "extreme left"? Usually that's classed as communists and / or anarchists ...

Again you are putting words in my mouth - I never said that the EU was a nirvana - just pointed out the times when worker rights were rooted in the EU.


That is how the EU works - EU directives are implemented in member states at member level, In the case of Paid Holiday - this is required under the European Working Time Directive and implemented by the Tony Blair government


After the Winter of Discontent - some felt the Unions needed curtailing - nor is there a European Directive that stipulates minimum Union Rights legislation.

Even the TUC spoke of the Employment Rights which we get from the EU.


https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default...20the%20EU.pdf

So you saying it is not to do with the EU is patently absurd.


There is nothing in the EU preventing us from changing government and electing a more 'progressive' one.


I don't know what you mean by the 'Day of Webbs' but the LSE is well known as left leaning. With left wing students even causing the postponement of speakers.


Just a few posts before this you are going on about Foot's failure to win the election and why we would have had a socialist England had he done so - it seems that you cannot fathom that we the British people did not vote for it. In all the years of seeing you post it looks like you have a chip about people who went to Grammar Schools, a chip about people who are born rich, a chip about people who become rich.


Why do you think people go to University? Why do you think employers prefer University graduates? - it is because University gives people something and that is greater knowledge.

And I do not bewail not gong myself, I wish I had but it was my fault and nobody else's that I did not - I was however lucky to spend my teenage years in Norwich which because of the unique relationship between the town and the University was able to take advantage of some of the facilities - including it's library.

Classic!

Unfortunately, I don't remember the names of writers of these articles I read many months ago - as I said, next one I read I'll bring to your attention.

1. And I pointed out most workers rights were won by the struggle of the labour movement.

2.The EU has certainly not protected us from attacks from our own national governments over the years.

3. No, but many progressive policies are not allowed under EU law - such as renationalisation . That is because they pursue the bosses agenda. So a progressive government couldn't function in the EU.

4. What I mean is its founding by the Fabian Webbs (Sidney and Beatrice) at the end of the 19th century. To say that the LSE is "left leaning" today is absurd - like saying the BBC is left leaning.

5. No I didn't - I said we would be halfway there (although maybe that's pushing it a lot on reflection!). And why do I have a chip on my shoulder about people who went to grammar schools when I attended one myself?

6. They gain a more in depth knowledge of the subject they study - not everything else! As I said before, many graduates are political ignoramuses just as many who didn't attend uni are.

7. Ah.............

I wasn't me that you asked, but what about Bob Rowthorn? He has some strong views on benefits from immigration, I wouldn't be surprised if he was pro-Brexit.

Given the way you have complained about Grammar Schools that surprises me. That makes you luckier than me then - my 11+ was not high enough to go to the local Grammar, and I went to a Secondary Modern (High) School.


But the skills they practice in doing that can be applied to any subject.



So not unique to University then - at least we have established that then. To be honest that would not surprise me - a lot of people do not have an interest in politics. I am lucky in that the Economics O Level I took was Economics and Public Affairs - giving me a grounding in both politics and economics.

That takes us right back to where we started - areas that have a higher education and higher social level voted to remain. Areas that had lower social levels and lower education voted to leave (except where those areas included a high level of immigration).

So the statement that those with greater knowledge (not just politics) voted to leave is false.

The statement that those with greater experience voted to leave does have some basis since as people got older then the percentage who voted leave increases. I suspect however this was down to having known a life outside of the EU. Anyone born in the mid to late 1970's however would not have any experience of life outside the EU.

(There was however another issue - the EEC was sold as a trading block when we last voted and it has morphed into political union and that is why many dislike it but would have voted remain if it was still just a trading block)

As I have said before my basis of voting remain was the benefits of being in a trading block - had we been asked to join the Euro my answer would have been an emphatic 'No' - I continue to think that the Euro is a failed experiment and it will always fail unless and until there is more political union in Europe and I do not support that.

Certainly this writer thinks it's bad:

" But once Brexit is triggered, our lifeboat will be cast off and set adrift with no land in sight."

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/...d#.WGVLX_mLQwU

I think it more in terms of a huge uncontrollable ship that has run aground because the captain ignored all advice from the crew about shark infested waters and unseen hazards ahead. We are in the only lifeboat that is being lowered to the water but we need to cut ourselves free from the remains of the wreckage and sail clear before we are dragged down into the abyss.

You can dream what you wish, but unless you can come up with concrete examples of how leaving the EU helps with any of this you are rather wasting your breath. In or out of the EU we are still part of Europe and that's by far our biggest market. If that's going down we go with it whatever. All we're doing is damaging it as we damage ourselves.

I thought you wanted a Marxist economist's view? I don't think the writer of this piece is one, is he?

Thanks, I couldn't find anything immediately apart from his views on immigration. But that doesn't mean he doesn't think Brexit will have an ongoing negative effect on the economy. He'd not be the first economist to prefer Brexit whilst acknowledging this.

I'm not sure, but it's all I have at the moment.

Most people, regardless of whether they have a degree, probably know little about economics.

The proliferation of Wonga like firms strongly suggests otherwise.

I dont need to come up with examples. The fact that the EU is institutionally corrupt, operates and imposes itself by stealth and takes £millions a week out of the country that could be more wisely spent on our NHS and schools are reasons enough for me.

?????

Indeed. The older generation realised to win a referendum you have to vote. This seemed to pass by the supposedly more intelligent younger electorate, who were more in favour of remain (according to the polls).

Maybe it's not the old Brexiters that are the thickos after all. I mean if people can't even grasp that voting in a referendum matters if you care about the result, then maybe they aren't as intelligent as they think.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to shoot anyone over the age of 60 so that younger people who are evidently much more intelligent, well informed, well travelled etc. could (in your words) 'have what they want.'

I have a degree ( It's not in Media Studies but hey, we survived.) I run my own company, export to many countries EU and non EU, and have employed many people over the years. I have had several non-fiction books published both here and abroad, travelled extensively, and take a great interest in politics, the arts, literature.

It seems however that having not died an early death, I owe the younger generation an apology. May I, on behalf of all of us who are not dead yet, apologise profusely for ruining your lives.

On one hand I despise the smugness of some Leave voters who look down on young Remainers/young people in general as "spoilt snowflakes who don't know about the real world". Also, there are a number of young people who are vocal about voting Leave, and are angry at the suggestion that the younger generation was or should be overwhelmingly pro-Remain.

On the other hand, I do get angry when young Remainers refer to people in their 40s/50s or even late 30s as "old, out of touch" etc and imply they shouldn't have had a say. For heaven's sake, they're not elderly. They will, if all is well, have the rest of middle age and then old age left; they have as much right to fear for their own future as younger people do.