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Why did the most knowledgeable and experienced vote for Yes to Brexit?


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Old 28-12-2016, 16:38
LostFool
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The ONLY analysis of the vote that can be stated as 100% correct is the result. ANYTHING else is supposition. When ballot papers ask for age, sex, educational attainments and racial prejudice THEN we can discuss who voted and why.
supposition
ˌsʌpəˈzɪʃ(ə)n
noun
a belief held without proof or certain knowledge; an assumption or hypothesis.
It's perfectly valid to blend election results with other demographic, socioeconomic and survey data to get a better picture of how people voted and why. Nobody is claiming that it will give you are 100% accurate representation of the facts but the whole point of these studies is to provide insights that cannot be got any other way. You seem to be discounting the whole subject of statistical analysis.
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Old 28-12-2016, 16:39
andykn
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A person who harms themselves because they like the pain is a masochist, a person who harms themselves because they believe it is the right thing to do for their families and their country is realistically a hero. We do not protect heroes from themselves we rely on them to be there for us, and they were in droves.
Never thought I'd hear you praising these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attack
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:10
The infidel
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Throughout history, the informed and intelligent have 'lead' the other members of their society to the correct route and this is what has happened in the context of the referendum. The who voted for Brexit will 'lead' the other members of UK society towards us leaving the EU and all will be well.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:16
GreatGodPan
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I have met several Leavers who insist that they wish to leave the Eu at any price. Even if they are financially harmed*. There may even be examples of this category of Leave voter in this forum.
I don't think it is unreasonable to call this Cult like behaviour.


* Leaver = Self Harmer (David Cameron).

You think a person who doesn't always think of their own immediate financial prospects when participating in an important vote is automatically guilty of "cult like behaviour"?

Thank the gods for those more enlightened ones who don't always bend the knee to measures that bring short-term benefit for themselves! The capitalist system has a lot to answer for.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:18
andykn
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Throughout history, the informed and intelligent have 'lead' the other members of their society to the correct route and this is what has happened in the context of the referendum. The who voted for Brexit will 'lead' the other members of UK society towards us leaving the EU and all will be well.
What makes you think "all will be well"?
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:23
paulschapman
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Throughout history, the informed and intelligent have 'lead' the other members of their society to the correct route and this is what has happened in the context of the referendum. The who voted for Brexit will 'lead' the other members of UK society towards us leaving the EU and all will be well.
Try looking up the word hubris - at the very least in the short term Brexit will cost us - either by the uncertainty until we leave, or by the drop in exports (as our exports will be more expensive).

The EU (if one believes what is coming out of the EU) are going to make it as difficult as possible to deter other countries from following our lead.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:26
The infidel
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What makes you think "all will be well"?
Because just over half of the British people are not stupid. I and other Breixitoids will see that you are properly fed and watered.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:41
Mr Oleo Strut
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A person who harms themselves because they like the pain is a masochist, a person who harms themselves because they believe it is the right thing to do for their families and their country is realistically a hero. We do not protect heroes from themselves we rely on them to be there for us, and they were in droves.
People who inflict pain on themselves and others for no gain are fools, complete fools. Heroes they are certainly not, just gullible lemmings.
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Old 28-12-2016, 17:54
paulschapman
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Because just over half of the British people are not stupid. I and other Breixitoids will see that you are properly fed and watered.
Neither were the other half - statistically they would have had a higher level of education.
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:04
The infidel
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Try looking up the word hubris - at the very least in the short term Brexit will cost us - either by the uncertainty until we leave, or by the drop in exports (as our exports will be more expensive).

The EU (if one believes what is coming out of the EU) are going to make it as difficult as possible to deter other countries from following our lead.
The problem with EU 'trade' is that it is highly asymmetric with imports being substantially higher than exports. Germany is the only country that has a trade surplus with the rest of the EU and that should really tell you all you need to know about how Germany uses the EU to provide it with an easy way to sell its goods around Europe.
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:15
Ulsterguy
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It's perfectly valid to blend election results with other demographic, socioeconomic and survey data to get a better picture of how people voted and why. Nobody is claiming that it will give you are 100% accurate representation of the facts but the whole point of these studies is to provide insights that cannot be got any other way. You seem to be discounting the whole subject of statistical analysis.
But it is supposition! Guesswork basically. Making assumptions. I've been following elections for many years, and this is the first one that people have been saying, as you are, that they know, positively how people voted. At the risk of repeating myself, the only 100% provable statistic is the amount of yes or no votes. Anything else is a guess.
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:29
Andrew1954
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I wonder to what extent educated people were merely voting the way they'd been told to?
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:36
LostFool
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I wonder to what extent educated people were merely voting the way they'd been told to?
Told to by whom?
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:39
peter3hg
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But it is supposition! Guesswork basically. Making assumptions. I've been following elections for many years, and this is the first one that people have been saying, as you are, that they know, positively how people voted. At the risk of repeating myself, the only 100% provable statistic is the amount of yes or no votes. Anything else is a guess.
It isn't a guess or supposition. It is an estimate which is a very different thing to a guess. It isn't supposition because they aren't holding the results up as being the absolute truth, just an estimate. People who dismiss proper polls and surveys as guesses display their ignorance of statistics in the same way that people who believe it 100%.
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:57
Ulsterguy
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It isn't a guess or supposition. It is an estimate which is a very different thing to a guess. It isn't supposition because they aren't holding the results up as being the absolute truth, just an estimate. People who dismiss proper polls and surveys as guesses display their ignorance of statistics in the same way that people who believe it 100%.
The same polls that failed to predict the result of the last General Election and the Brexit vote?
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Old 28-12-2016, 18:59
Andrew1954
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Educated people are very good at knowing what is the established view (and believing it) without necessarily having a deep understanding of the subject.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:05
SULLA
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Age is no guarantee of wisdom.
Ok. Try experience then
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:09
andykn
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Because just over half of the British people are not stupid. I and other Breixitoids will see that you are properly fed and watered.
Ah, I'm right because I'm right; what could possibly go wrong?

Or in other words you've no idea how almost every credible economic commentator will be wrong and people chasing a non existent 350m might be right.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:12
andykn
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Try looking up the word hubris - at the very least in the short term Brexit will cost us - either by the uncertainty until we leave, or by the drop in exports (as our exports will be more expensive).

The EU (if one believes what is coming out of the EU) are going to make it as difficult as possible to deter other countries from following our lead.
I'm not sure much like that has come out of the EU. All we've got is Brexiters howling "punishment" because the EU won't let us have our cake and eat it.

The EU seem quite happy to sit back and let the whole mess speak for itself.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:13
andykn
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The problem with EU 'trade' is that it is highly asymmetric with imports being substantially higher than exports.
That's the same problem with world trade too. Are you suggesting we leave that too?
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:16
andykn
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But it is supposition! Guesswork basically. Making assumptions. I've been following elections for many years, and this is the first one that people have been saying, as you are, that they know, positively how people voted. At the risk of repeating myself, the only 100% provable statistic is the amount of yes or no votes. Anything else is a guess.
Brexiters seem to be very fond of pretending there's nothing between proof and utter ignorance.

Look at how inflation figures are, er, guessed at.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:18
andykn
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Educated people are very good at knowing what is the established view (and believing it) without necessarily having a deep understanding of the subject.
And less educated people have even less understanding of the subject. Your point?
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:20
GreatGodPan
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Neither were the other half - statistically they would have had a higher level of education.
But, but.... running with this for a moment how would having a degree in, say, computer studies or accounting automatically make a person politically more sophisticated?

What does the statistic, if true, prove exactly?

If the same proportion of people went to uni 40 years ago as go now are you saying the result would have been to remain, on the basis that these degrees confer a political savviness in the shape of being pro-EU?

Unfortunately I have found many university graduates over the last 20 years or so to be incredibly naive in the socio-political field.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:22
GreatGodPan
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Ok. Try experience then
Wisdom doesn't come from age or experience.

It is a quality that belongs to few, and cannot be learned.
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Old 28-12-2016, 19:25
GreatGodPan
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Ah, I'm right because I'm right; what could possibly go wrong?

Or in other words you've no idea how almost every credible economic commentator will be wrong and people chasing a non existent 350m might be right.
I presume you are speaking of pro-market, capitalist-supporting economists here.

What about Marxist economists?
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