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Why are Gay campaigners saying George Michael should have come out as Gay years ago


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Old 28-12-2016, 08:36
Zarla
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GM has said that he struggled with his sexuality in the 80s and only found peace with being gay aged 27 in 1990. Tbh coming out in the early 90s under the shadow of AIDS and Clause 28 was incredibly, awesomely brave. Other gay musicians like Michael Stipe and Morrissey never came out in the bold way George did with Outside.
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Old 28-12-2016, 08:53
Trulytrue
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It would have been better he'd have 'come out' like that, then him feel the need to secretly go around those public toilets, wouldn't it.

If you dont come out, dont people just assume your straight....
Going into public loos had nothing to do with anything. IF he did do that, then it would be the thought of being caught that was exciting rather than finding a partner. its never been hard to find a gay partner in the celeb world.

its like top public figures kerb crawling they have no need to do that, its the excitement of it that pulls them to do it.
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Old 28-12-2016, 08:53
terry45
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Would be nice of the OP to return and apologise for lying.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:06
What name??
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What is so dreadful about him? He's done a hell of a lot for gay rights. The few who are "allergic" to him have either misunderstood what he's about, or are homophobes.
Right PT in a nutshell. Anyone who dislikes him is homophobic. Anyone who disagrees with him is homophobic. Anyone with a different opinion to him is homophobic .

I understand him very well and can't stand the racist ignorant got. And it's not because he's gay - it's the other attributes.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:12
jjwales
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Right PT in a nutshell. Anyone who dislikes him is homophobic. Anyone who disagrees with him is homophobic. Anyone with a different opinion to him is homophobic . .
Don't be ridiculous. Obviously I didn't say that, and neither has PT said anything like that.

I understand him very well and can't stand the racist ignorant got. And it's not because he's gay - it's the other attributes.
What other attributes? And in what way is he racist or ignorant? The "racist" claim is particularly baffling when you consider his involvement in the anti-apartheid movement.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:24
benjamini
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Peter Tatchell did not say that GM should have come out as gay earlier. He wrote a very sympathetic article about him, including the following paragraph. (I've put the important bits in bold.)


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7496321.html
Thank you for bringing a modicum of balance and indeed truth to the usual OTT reaction to Tatchels name. I find Tatchel a difficult man to warm to personally but he has campaigned tirelessly on many issues and I have enormous respect for him.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:25
Sport1
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Right PT in a nutshell. Anyone who dislikes him is homophobic. Anyone who disagrees with him is homophobic. Anyone with a different opinion to him is homophobic .

I understand him very well and can't stand the racist ignorant got. And it's not because he's gay - it's the other attributes.
In what possible way is he racist?
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:26
What name??
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What other attributes? And in what way is he racist or ignorant? The "racist" claim is particularly baffling.
Google is your friend end. He has a long history of making racist remarks and using white privileged to get away with it and is hardly a free speech advocate - especially of musicians.

This was the man who tried to have the the Fairytale of New York censored (failed cos they are white), made himself ridiculous protesting Eminem (laughed at because he was white) and got several black artists banged from performing in the UK.

And of course the children can consent to sex line is pretty disgusting too.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:32
Sport1
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You made the accusation but you want us to search Google for the evidence?

You do it.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:48
MTUK1
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Thank you for bringing a modicum of balance and indeed truth to the usual OTT reaction to Tatchels name. I find Tatchel a difficult man to warm to personally but he has campaigned tirelessly on many issues and I have enormous respect for him.
Err I think you'll find it was me who said the same thing first.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:49
What name??
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You made the accusation but you want us to search Google for the evidence?

You do it.
After your polite request why not?

Paedophile supporting PT:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ights.weekend7

Islamophobist PT:
http://www.tmponline.org/2013/04/03/...eter-tatchell/

Racist PT. Article with both sides presented:

https://sta.uwi.edu/crgs/november200...adelarcher.pdf
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:49
jjwales
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Google is your friend end. He has a long history of making racist remarks and using white privileged to get away with it and is hardly a free speech advocate - especially of musicians.
Please provide an example of these "racist" remarks. As I've said, it's pretty unlikely that an anti-apartheid campaigner would make such remarks.

Also, he is most definitely a free speech advocate. In fact he even defended a Christian street preacher who was fined for saying that homosexuality is a sin.

This was the man who tried to have the the Fairytale of New York censored (failed cos they are white), made himself ridiculous protesting Eminem (laughed at because he was white) and got several black artists banged from performing in the UK.
He did not try to have Fairytale of New York censored, and he only wanted artists banned from performing here if they advocated the murder of gay people. Which seems perfectly reasonable.
http://www.petertatchell.net/pop_mus...eofnewyork.htm

And of course the children can consent to sex line is pretty disgusting too.
Again, you seem to be going by tabloid headlines rather than researching the actual facts. He didn't actually say that children can consent to sex.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:55
Dotheboyshall
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I can understand that if George hadn't had to hide his homosexuality then his life would have been less self destructive.
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Old 28-12-2016, 09:57
MTUK1
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I can understand that if George hadn't had to hide his homosexuality then his life would have been less self destructive.
Not really. Even when he was open about being gay he still did amazingly reckless things.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:02
jjwales
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After your polite request why not?

Paedophile supporting PT:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ights.weekend7

Islamophobist PT:
http://www.tmponline.org/2013/04/03/...eter-tatchell/

Racist PT. Article with both sides presented:

https://sta.uwi.edu/crgs/november200...adelarcher.pdf
Being anti-"murder music" is clearly not the same thing as being racist. The fact that some have called him racist or Islamophobic doesn't mean that he is either of those things, and his opposition to apartheid and his general view on human rights would suggest that he is not. And your first example does not show that he is a supporter of paedophiles.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:07
GusGus
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You clearly haven't read or heard what Tatchell actually said. There's nothing "vile" about him.

Can anyone point to anything that Tatchell has actually achiever other than promoting himself
Any progress in anti discrimination stems from the laws that Tony Blair's government passed. Tatchell is the Farage of the gay world, jump on any bandwagon that suits his agenda
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:19
jjwales
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Can anyone point to anything that Tatchell has actually achiever other than promoting himself
Yes, he's drawn attention to many different kinds of prejudice and discrimination, and has been an inspiration to many campaigners for gay rights.

Any progress in anti discrimination stems from the laws that Tony Blair's government passed. Tatchell is the Farage of the gay world, jump on any bandwagon that suits his agenda
And as his "agenda" is the promotion of human rights, what exactly is wrong with that? And why all the hate?
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:21
benjamini
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Err I think you'll find it was me who said the same thing first.
Sorry if I missed your post, well said anyway
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:30
ShaunIOW
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It was up to George when he came out and no one else, I was reading yesterday that he waitied till his mother passed away before coming out.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:30
What name??
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He did not try to have Fairytale of New York censored, and he only wanted artists banned from performing here if they advocated the murder of gay people. Which seems perfectly reasonable.
http://www.petertatchell.net/pop_mus...eofnewyork.htm
.
If you googled him you will notice that several articles have been removed about him under the European data act. You won't get a comprehensive view of what he said and the criticism at the time if you only quote his own reinterpretations and reaction to criticisms - with the original articles and radio interviews missing. The "free speech advocate" doesn't seem to like criticism of his past actions hanging around.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:30
Brian The Dog
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1. Gay campaigners DO NOT speak for everyone or anyone but themselves.

2. It was George Michaels life to do with as he wished and no one else's to decide for him.

3. As a gay man myself, I am personally against "Coming Out" as I see it as nothing but pressure to be forced into declaring your sexuality. Straight people are not expected or forced to do this so why should gay people? I have never "come out" but merely tell people who I wish to know. That way I keep control over my life instead of having my life dictated to me.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:37
Trulytrue
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1. Gay campaigners DO NOT speak for everyone or anyone but themselves.

2. It was George Michaels life to do with as he wished and no one else's to decide for him.

3. As a gay man myself, I am personally against "Coming Out" as I see it as nothing but pressure to be forced into declaring your sexuality. Straight people are not expected or forced to do this so why should gay people? I have never "come out" but merely tell people who I wish to know. That way I keep control over my life instead of having my life dictated to me.
Very well said. There is no need to "come out" sooner that is accepted the better.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:41
What name??
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Being anti-"murder music" is clearly not the same thing as being racist.
It isn't but the methods you use to pursue it can be, as can the attitude that you represent and speak for a minority and ignore the criticism from within that group on the theory that you know best.

It's similar to the fact that criticism or even non-approval of Israel isn't anti-semitic BUT some use the issue to target and stigmatize all Jews. And that is anti-semitic.

PT's campaign against what he called "Jamaican murder music" crossed that line by quite a way:

Assumed an infantalised audience to the music as if black people couldn't distinguish between incitement to violence and lyrics about violence and played on that racial stereotype;

Told outright lies (there is no history of gay attacks after dancehall concerts in the UK, but he campaigned to get them banned on those grounds)

Ignored the complaints of black gay rights protesters about that issue knowing they would be ignored by the UK press and he wouldn't be (use of white privilege) and also of course the expanded that protest to venues that hosted black music, music awards, targeted a nation and made ridiculous accusations such as are Jamaicans the most homophobic people in the world that many people in the UK still subconsciously buy into.

All that is racist. There is a reason his stance against Eminem and the Pogues were laughed at an rejected on the grounds of free speech and his campaign against several black musicians wasn't. And he knew the reason was racism and encouraged that attitude in society in general and particularly amongst gay activists. And that is hardly conducive to helping gay black people either.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:41
jjwales
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1. Gay campaigners DO NOT speak for everyone or anyone but themselves.

2. It was George Michaels life to do with as he wished and no one else's to decide for him.
Agreed, and Peter Tatchell has not suggested otherwise.

3. As a gay man myself, I am personally against "Coming Out" as I see it as nothing but pressure to be forced into declaring your sexuality. Straight people are not expected or forced to do this so why should gay people? I have never "come out" but merely tell people who I wish to know. That way I keep control over my life instead of having my life dictated to me.
You have told people who you wish to know, so you have in fact "come out" to them - coming out doesn't have to be a public declaration to all and sundry. However many of the advances in gay rights are due to public figures having the courage to come out publicly.

Your comparison with straight people doesn't work, as people are generally assumed to be straight until it is known to be otherwise.
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Old 28-12-2016, 10:47
jjwales
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It isn't but the methods you use to pursue it can be, as can the attitude that you represent and speak for a minority and ignore the criticism from within that group on the theory that you know best.

It's similar to the fact that criticism or even non-approval of Israel isn't anti-semitic BUT some use the issue to target and stigmatize all Jews. And that is anti-semitic.

PT's campaign against what he called "Jamaican murder music" crossed that line by quite a way, assumed an infantalised audience to the music as if black people couldn't distinguish between incitement to violence and lyrics about violence, told outright lies (there is no history of gay attacks after dancehall concerts in the UK, but he campaigned to get them banned on those grounds) and ignored the complaints of black gay rights protesters about that issue knowing they would be ignored by the UK press and he wouldn't be (use of white privilege) and also of course the expanded that protest to venues that hosted black music, music awards, targeted a nation and made ridiculous accusations such as are Jamaicans the most homophobic people in the world that many people in the UK still subconsciously buy into.

He is a nasty piece of work and he knew exactly what he was doing.
He was trying to stop artists coming here whose lyrics advocate the murder of gay people. Nothing remotely nasty about that. You may think he went about it the wrong way, but that doesn't make him racist.

And while Jamaica may not be the worst place in the world, it is certainly an extremely homophobic country.
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