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Home Office says EU citizen has no right to stay in UK


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Old 28-12-2016, 20:47
tim59
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The person responsible is the one who broke the law. She and she alone created her own problem.
Why what law is she have meant to have broken, has she been charged with breaking the law, has she been taken to court, has she been found guilty ?
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:01
Annsyre
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Why what law is she have meant to have broken, has she been charged with breaking the law, has she been taken to court, has she been found guilty ?
She failed to produce correct documentation and broke the civil law.
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Old 28-12-2016, 21:03
tim59
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She failed to produce correct documentation and broke the civil law.
Not if you read the story. In her complaint, Hawkins points out that she included a solicitor-approved photocopy of her passport – which is permissible under the rules – plus a covering letter to explain why she could not be without her passport for the four to six months it takes to process.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:01
UncleLou
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you provide evidence that you have been exercising your rights as a resident such as copies of paperwork or your proof of marriage to a UK citizen,
Being married to a British citizen is not exercising treaty rights.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:09
skp20040
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Being married to a British citizen is not exercising treaty rights.
I never said it was I said OR proof of her marriage not as well as
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:32
UncleLou
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She explained why she couldn't send her passport
There was provision for this on the form according to the article
She spent a weekend on the application and yet this only took me seconds to find in the guidance notes for that application, on page 3, under the title Proof of identity and nationality.

It says she can send in as proof either her Dutch passport, or her national identity card or her EEA travel document.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...rd-form-eea-pr

From the article in the paper, she seems to be saying that she didn't send in one of these three as her proof.

She didn't have to be without her passport as she could have sent in either of the other documents, but didn't.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:37
Kiteview
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She failed to produce correct documentation and broke the civil law.
Failing to produce correct documentation is not breaking civil law.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:39
skp20040
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She spent a weekend on the application and yet this only took me seconds to find in the guidance notes for that application, on page 3, under the title Proof of identity and nationality.

It says she can send in as proof either her Danish passport, or her national identity card or her EEA travel document.

From the article in the paper, she seems to be saying that she didn't send in one of these as her proof.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...rd-form-eea-pr
Also she said she had to send her passport away but the application will accept an ID Card so why didn't she send her Dutch ID card or if she drives her Driving Licence.

Whilst the bog standard computerised response she got may have been a shock the situation is basically of her making by her errors.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:44
UncleLou
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Also she said she had to send her passport away but the application will accept an ID Card so why didn't she send her Dutch ID card.
Oh her EEA travel document as they will accept that too.


Whilst the bog standard computerised response she got may have been a shock the situation is basically of her making by her errors.
Yes. It is all clearly listed in the guidance notes that just took me seconds to find and read.
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Old 28-12-2016, 23:52
UncleLou
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she included a solicitor-approved photocopy of her passport – which is permissible under the rules – .
Is it? I can't see where it says that in the guidance for that application form.

She had the choice of sending in one of three documents and from the article, it seems she didn't send in any.
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Old 29-12-2016, 00:00
UncleLou
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I never said it was I said OR proof of her marriage not as well as
What good would being married to a Brit be, for an EEA citizen applying under EU rules for their DCPR?

EEA rules say that it is the EEA citizen who has to be exercising their treaty rights to be allowed to reside in another EEA country.
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Old 29-12-2016, 00:09
FusionFury
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Deporting is happening

Bye bye
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Old 29-12-2016, 00:27
tim59
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Is it? I can't see where it says that in the guidance for that application form.

She had the choice of sending in one of three documents and from the article, it seems she didn't send in any.
Would she have had other documents after living here for 24 years, or just her passport
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Old 29-12-2016, 00:52
skp20040
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Would she have had other documents after living here for 24 years, or just her passport
She goes back to Holland on visits so she would need her ID as a Dutch Citizen, any EU person I know who lives here renews their ID card at their embassy in the UK .

However lets say she did not have an ID card she could use the European Passport Return Service run by local councils as stated on the government websites , if she is in London each borough does it. Within 5 days of doing your form you go to the council/borough offices and pay £15 they certify a copy of your passport (not a solicitor) and then they send all your documents/application etc including the certified copy for you and you keep hold of your passport.

As I said before yes she is shocked at the response generated by computer but it is a catalogue of errors and misunderstandings on her part

Just a couple of examples but they are all the same other than opening hours

https://www.hants.gov.uk/registratio...treturnservice

https://www.islington.gov.uk/birth-d...return-service
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Old 29-12-2016, 05:22
zahavi
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The law is the law. Childless people do not get treated any differently from those with children.
the point is that this law is retarded.

what is she supposed to do with the children ? abandon them ?

gosh some people are so heartless.
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Old 29-12-2016, 07:51
HR Guru
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So much misinformation in this thread (and in the article)... unbelievable.

The lady has every right to become a British Citizen, based on her marriage and the duration she has spent in the country. She is not required to have been exercising treaty rights whatsoever.

The problem occurs due to the fact that the Home Office is currently in breach of immigration regulations by having implemented a new rule that requires any EEA citizen seeking British Citizenship having to hold a Permanent Residence card first (PR). This must be submitted along with the citizenship application.

This is in breach of legislation as the document cannot be mandatory as long as we are in the EU.

In fact this requirement puts EEA citizens married to UK citizens in a grey area as they currently can't apply for British Citizenship without the PR card... and they can't get the PR card unless they have been exercising treaty rights (i.e. working, studying, being retired or being self sufficient). Simply being married to a UK citizen doesn't count and those people are unable to obtain a PR card.

To get the PR card you must prove 5 years of exercising treaty rights by submitting P60s or employer letters (other documents in case of being a student or retired) tenancy or mortgage agreements covering the 5 year period, you EU ID (passport or card) and pay £65.

There are several court cases pending.

However, the article got things mixed up and is not actually mentioning the real problem here.. the lady applied for her PR card without submitting ID and the application was therefore rejected. Nothing else to it.

Notwithstanding - the response letter from the HO is a bad copy and paste job and has no merit. She can't be deported and has to make no plans to leave the country.
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Old 29-12-2016, 07:53
HR Guru
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She failed to produce correct documentation and broke the civil law.
She has broken no law whatsoever. In fact she doesn't need any documentation to be in the country. She has entered the country on valid documentation and that's that. Nothing else required.
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Old 29-12-2016, 09:35
Doctor_Wibble
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FTFA:
Hawkins said her treatment by the Home Office was as absurd as a “Monty Python” sketch.
If nothing else, surely that can count as a bonus point for the 'britishness' test?

Half a mark for the reference and half a mark for accuracy
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Old 29-12-2016, 09:47
corf
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She has broken no law whatsoever. In fact she doesn't need any documentation to be in the country. She has entered the country on valid documentation and that's that. Nothing else required.
Thats correct - but she failed to provdie the correct documentation for the application in question and then is surprised when the application is rejected and got a standard letter in reply.

This isnt even newsworthy.
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Old 29-12-2016, 09:55
paulschapman
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The person responsible is the one who broke the law. She and she alone created her own problem.
She has not broken any law - as an EU citizen she has the right to remain in this country until such time that the Article 50 process completes. She is legally married, brought up two children and has remained legal while here. The Home Office knows this since it will be on her record (from when she first came to the country) - it is being it's usual arrogant self and relies on people not knowing and therefore an easy target.

She has a right of appeal and now the opportunity of using one of the centres where the passport can be shown and there should be no problem.
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Old 29-12-2016, 09:57
Miasima Goria
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She has not broken any law - as an EU citizen she has the right to remain in this country until such time that the Article 50 process completes. She is legally married, brought up two children and has remained legal while here. The Home Office knows this since it will be on her record (from when she first came to the country) - it is being it's usual arrogant self and relies on people not knowing and therefore an easy target.

She has a right of appeal and now the opportunity of using one of the centres where the passport can be shown and there should be no problem.
Judging by the tone of some posters on this thread, her 'crime' is to be an immigrant.
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Old 29-12-2016, 10:04
The infidel
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UK law must now be given precedence. We can now ignore all EU laws which harm us or put us at a disadvantage or threatens our security. We should now be stopping all payments to the EU and instead spend the money of the NHS and our own railways instead of paying for new railways in Poland and Hungary.
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Old 29-12-2016, 10:46
HR Guru
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UK law must now be given precedence. We can now ignore all EU laws which harm us or put us at a disadvantage or threatens our security. We should now be stopping all payments to the EU and instead spend the money of the NHS and our own railways instead of paying for new railways in Poland and Hungary.
Dream on, you're deluded if you think we can ignore any laws whatsoever.
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Old 29-12-2016, 10:48
HR Guru
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Thats correct - but she failed to provdie the correct documentation for the application in question and then is surprised when the application is rejected and got a standard letter in reply.

This isnt even newsworthy.
As I said - it is newsworthy, if it were reported correctly, as a PR card cannot legally be required for the purpose of applying for British Citizenship... despite the Home Office, under May, having changed the rules to demand a PR card.

The fact that the PR application was turned down due to a the failure of supplying a passport of Dutch ID card is not newsworthy in itself.
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Old 29-12-2016, 11:39
johhn
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I'd like to think a PR card should be required from eligible EU migrants when applying for UK citizenship, which will make it in line with immigration rules that apply to all non-EU migrants in the long run. The fact that EU migrants can save 1810 in cost is already a huge advantage on its own merit.
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