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Old 31-12-2016, 18:19
Nigel Goodwin
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Why are you assuming that OLED panels can't be manufactured at significantly lower cost than LCD panels?
For a start because they have the MASSIVE development costs to try and recover (or at least some part of them), but also because it's been widely reported that manufacturing failure rates are fairly high for OLED. Mainly though because it's pretty difficult to make umpteen million LED's with a zero failure rate.
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Old 31-12-2016, 18:23
Nigel Goodwin
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In addition to this I have been reading reports that Samsung have been working on QLED panels that could give OLED a huge run for it's money.
Be interesting to see what (if anything) happens, seeing as Samsung dropped OLED development like everyone else (except LG).
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Old 31-12-2016, 18:38
d'@ve
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For a start because they have the MASSIVE development costs to try and recover (or at least some part of them), but also because it's been widely reported that manufacturing failure rates are fairly high for OLED. Mainly though because it's pretty difficult to make umpteen million LED's with a zero failure rate.
They just to get failures down to an acceptable level as has been done with DSLR sensors, which have far more pixels to worry about than UHD TV. It's been done with camera sensors and will happen with the newer OLED technology, it's just a matter of time.

If OLED TVs survive, of course.
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Old 04-01-2017, 14:42
skinj
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New Panasonic OLEDs announced.
http://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer...65ez1002b.html
No idea on prices but looks top end. Good news is that it is flat, not curved!
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Old 04-01-2017, 15:07
njp
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For a start because they have the MASSIVE development costs to try and recover (or at least some part of them)
Plasma and LCD also had MASSIVE development costs to recover. And yet both became vastly cheaper over time.

but also because it's been widely reported that manufacturing failure rates are fairly high for OLED. Mainly though because it's pretty difficult to make umpteen million LED's with a zero failure rate.
Defect rates are always higher at the outset of any new manufacturing process. Working out how to reduce them is always the challenge. And it isn't the OLEDs that are the main manufacturing challenge - it's the active substrate onto which they are printed.
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Old 04-01-2017, 15:34
koantemplation
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It's not the manufacturing failure rate that's the main problem, it is the quality control.

No way should a screen be sold with a dead pixel, banding or other problem that could easily be tested before selling.
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Old 04-01-2017, 15:51
skinj
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Plasma and LCD also had MASSIVE development costs to recover. And yet both became vastly cheaper over time.
Think the biggest issue now however is the vastly increased price depreciation that the TV market is suffering. Going back to the period when Plasma monitors started to appear, they were predominantly used in commercial situations where cost for the purchasers could be easily recouped or justified. Particularly for pubs, clubs, conference centres where having large screens increased the desirability of the venues.
The early adopters of the Plasma screens for home use essentially started doing so bu buying the commercial models that had tuners to them. This seemed to be the norm for a few years before the price slowly dropped and hit a tipping point whereby they became a viable alternative for people other than the early adopters. The following year after a big upturn in sales (from memory) Panasonic made an actual Plasma TV, rather than Plasma monitor for the UK market. The sales of flat TV rocketed from then on for the big names like Sony, Pana', Pioneer etc..

Now however, we're not seeing the OLED sets being taken up initially at vast prices by the corporate buyer, there is no need to do so as the existing screens do everything that these buyers need already at much lower prices.
As it stands now, the early adopters are the one's footing the bill for the development of OLED (and LG who are still subsidising it heavily). The lack of the initial corporate purchases and the consumer demand for rapidly decreasing prices on TVs will make recouping the development costs really tricky, if even possible before the next big thing replaces it.
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Old Yesterday, 15:26
GDK
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Seems that Sony have taken the OLED "plunge" with their newly announced A1.

Link

There are lots of reports on this announcement from CES.
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Old Yesterday, 15:29
koantemplation
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Seems that Sony have taken the OLED "plunge" with their newly announced A1.

Link

There are lots of reports on this announcement from CES.
Any prices?

I like the way they've made the stand, looks like all the workings are in it which leaves just a flat screen.
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Old Yesterday, 15:46
CappySpectrum
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Any prices?

I like the way they've made the stand, looks like all the workings are in it which leaves just a flat screen.
Cannot see them below £3,000.
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Old Yesterday, 15:56
koantemplation
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Cannot see them below £3,000.
Shame just out of my price range.

I'm on a 55in at the moment but want my next one to be 65in, but has to be 4k and HDR10 at least.
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Old Yesterday, 16:06
GDK
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Any prices?

I like the way they've made the stand, looks like all the workings are in it which leaves just a flat screen.
I've not seen any prices reported. I would not be surprised if it's north of £3,500 for a 55". I got last year's LG 55" E6 screen. It was £3500 when launched in May. By December it could be had for around £2500. The 65" E6 is currently around £3500.

Set your price expectations accordingly.
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Old Yesterday, 16:08
CappySpectrum
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You wont get a 65" below that price. Not with all the bells and whistles on OLED. Especially if it has a Sony or Panasonic logo on it. Guarantee the Panasonic OLED's will be minimum if that from £4,000 up for a 65 inch.
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Old Yesterday, 19:24
gds1972
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You wont get a 65" below that price. Not with all the bells and whistles on OLED. Especially if it has a Sony or Panasonic logo on it. Guarantee the Panasonic OLED's will be minimum if that from £4,000 up for a 65 inch.
I would be very surprised if the LG models didn't undercut the Sony & Panasonic prices by a few hundred pounds.
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Old Yesterday, 21:03
Chris Frost
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Plasma and LCD also had MASSIVE development costs to recover. And yet both became vastly cheaper over time.
True, but there was far more competition driving the development of the technologies, and plasma marked a significant change (from CRT) so the benefits of larger screens without the image distortions of CRT tube or the depth of rear projection were perceived as major advantages.

Contrast the above with OLED. What does it offer us?...... We already have flat screens, we already have 1080 and UHD, we already have HDR, we already have very thin TVs, we already have tiny bezels...... The only significant advantage is the black level. Don't get me wrong, zero light output for picture black is great; but do I really need that at x4-x8 the price of a conventional flat screen TV when most of my viewing is done with some ambient light in the room? Oh yes, and OLED still has a problem with pixel burn and in some cases image retention too.

The benefits of OLED are niche. If the market teaches us anything it's that niche loses out to size and to pixel numbers and to price. Beta was better than VHS, but Beta won. HD-DVD was better than Blu-ray, but Blu-ray won. SACD was/is better than CD and MP3, but still fails to make any headway. Plasma was better than LCD/LED, but it was seen off by consumer mis-information and the shiny baubles of thin screens and low price.

With my tech-head on I want OLED, but I don't want screen burn and image retention and I'd rather not pay £2,500 - £4,000 for a technology that isn't yet mature enough to have dealt with these issues.
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