DS Forums

 
 

Jeremy Corbyn accuses Theresa May of Henry VIII-style autocracy over vote on Brexit


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 29-12-2016, 07:49
tahiti
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Los Angeles CA
Posts: 2,590

Jeremy Corbyn has accused Theresa May of being autocratic like Henry VIII by refusing to promise Parliament a vote on the final Brexit deal.

The Labour leader said it would be "extraordinary" if the Prime Minister used the royal prerogative to bypass British MPs while parliaments in other European countries got to vote on the package.

His comments come after Mrs May refused to commit herself to giving Parliament a vote when the eventual deal is thrashed out in early 2019, while questioned during a select committee hearing.

"It (a final Brexit deal) would have to come to Parliament," Mr Corbyn told The Guardian.

"She cannot hide behind Henry VIII and the divine rights of the power of kings on this one."

He added: "The idea that on something as major as this the Prime Minister would use the royal prerogative to bypass Parliament is extraordinary - I don't know where she's coming from."

The interview with the Labour leader comes as he is reportedly set to have a makeover to tap into the populist anti-establishment sentiment sweeping through politics.

Mr Corbyn defended the benefits immigration brings to the British economy and said there was a "level of exaggeration" about its negative impact.

He was also critical of calls for a work visa scheme to be introduced post-Brexit, describing the proposals as "fraught with difficulties".

And he cast doubt over the feasibility of a system in which people could only come to Britain if they had a job.

He told the newspaper: "Well then, that will work in reverse for British people going abroad, which would be difficult to implement and maybe is counter to the principles of the European market."

Companies such as Airbus, Nissan and Hitachi need to be free to move skilled workers around Europe and would leave Britain if Brexit mean higher tariffs to access the single market, he warned.

Rather than set targets to bring immigration down he instead stressed the need to tackle undercutting in the workplace.

He said: "What we need to address is exploitation, undercutting and the way in which companies are trying to destroy industrial agreements by ignoring what they should be doing, which is paying people properly and not bringing people in to undercut."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...yle-autocracy/

No reference to the 'will of the people' nonsense , which is good to see.

Are we set to FINALLY have a working Opposition in this country to this Brexit madness ?

Better late than never and great if Mr Corbyn is starting to get going.

He should not worry about losing some of his voters to UKIP, as he reportedly was. Let them go. They will be replaced by hundreds of thousands of Remain voters if he commits to staying in the EU !
tahiti is offline   Reply With Quote
Please sign in or register to remove this advertisement.
Old 29-12-2016, 07:59
mossy2103
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 68,697
He should not worry about losing some of his voters to UKIP, as he reportedly was. Let them go. They will be replaced by hundreds of thousands of Remain voters if he commits to staying in the EU !
He should worry about Labour remain voters deserting a party that they no longer feel represents them or their beliefs.
mossy2103 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 08:04
aurichie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
He should not worry about losing some of his voters to UKIP, as he reportedly was. Let them go. They will be replaced by hundreds of thousands of Remain voters if he commits to staying in the EU !
He should worry because if the results of the referendum were replicated in seats in a general election Labour would sink to all-time lows and would be virtually wiped out. Where remain support was at its strongest in the EU referendum are areas where Labour is already strong. It's elsewhere in the country, outside of London, that will determine the fate of the Labour Party at the next election. And many of those areas voted to leave the EU.

I'm all for stopping Brexit stone dead via parliament. But it's hard to see how this can possibly be an election winning exercise for the Labour Party. Which is why so many of their heavy hitters are refusing to come out and say they will block brexit forever. And that is why I see the whole idea doomed to failure.

If Labour wants to have a hope of doing better at the next election, they cannot be seen to be obstructing brexit. Lib Dems who have nothing much to lose can afford to take a much more risky position to try and rebuild their party, and that's why they are pursuing a very pro-EU position.
aurichie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 08:38
Annsyre
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97,109
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...yle-autocracy/

No reference to the 'will of the people' nonsense , which is good to see.

Are we set to FINALLY have a working Opposition in this country to this Brexit madness ?

Better late than never and great if Mr Corbyn is starting to get going.

He should not worry about losing some of his voters to UKIP, as he reportedly was. Let them go. They will be replaced by hundreds of thousands of Remain voters if he commits to staying in the EU !

There are some similarities. A foreign power was trying to control English life and override the authority of the English. Henry VIII and his English Parliament changed the law of the land and took back power from the foreigner. This also included keepng English money in England and not exporting it to the foreign power.

1533: the Act of Restraint of Appeals
1534: The Act of Supremacy
1534: The Act of Annates
Annsyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 08:46
platelet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GL51 0EX
Posts: 14,085

Are we set to FINALLY have a working Opposition in this country to this Brexit madness ?

Better late than never and great if Mr Corbyn is starting to get going.
Not really. This is the start of the Corbyn relaunch - it's more about marketing him as the anti-establishment hero; Embracing main stream media; and appealing to the left behind rather than metropolitan set. Oh and possibly telling some more lies about how much Bernie Sanders likes him even if Obama doesn't

That's not compatible with opposing Brexit, it's more about jeering at whatever the government stance is on anything
platelet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 10:30
Bacon&Eggs
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,806
Not really. This is the start of the Corbyn relaunch - it's more about marketing him as the anti-establishment hero; Embracing main stream media; and appealing to the left behind rather than metropolitan set. Oh and possibly telling some more lies about how much Bernie Sanders likes him even if Obama doesn't

That's not compatible with opposing Brexit, it's more about jeering at whatever the government stance is on anything
Obama loves him, reckons he's in touch with the people. And i doubt Corbyn will embrace the MSM since they're biased against his policies. He'd have to re-centre his policy ideas to ever think he could fair well in the MSM and since he's finally claiming his rightful position as "head establishment botherer" clearly he's not moving to the centre.

What makes you think he will embrace the msm?
Bacon&Eggs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 10:45
MargMck
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,632
[quote]
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...yle-autocracy/

No reference to the 'will of the people' nonsense , which is good to see.

Are we set to FINALLY have a working Opposition in this country to this Brexit madness ?

Better late than never and great if Mr Corbyn is starting to get going.

He should not worry about losing some of his voters to UKIP, as he reportedly was. Let them go. They will be replaced by hundreds of thousands of Remain voters if he commits to staying in the EU ![/QUOTE]
Oh dear. All he would be doing is squabbling with the Lib Dems over a diminishing rump of Remain diehards. And mostly in seats where either Lab had no chance anyway - or those London seats Lab would win with a chimp wearing a red rosette.
It's a recipe for annihilation in swathes of the Midlands, NW and East.
Anyway, there is no way Corbyn the secret leaver is going to all-out fight to stop Brexit. It suits him just fine to be "honouring the will of the people."
MargMck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 11:02
jmclaugh
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,965
He could be in the Tower by New Year.
jmclaugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 11:52
ksmiggy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 913
Companies such as Airbus, Nissan and Hitachi need to be free to move skilled workers around Europe and would leave Britain if Brexit mean higher tariffs to access the single market, he warned.

Hmm, concerned about companies being able to move skilled (cheap) labour around rather then train the labour here. Hardly concern for the average joe in the street.
ksmiggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 12:02
aurichie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
Companies such as Airbus, Nissan and Hitachi need to be free to move skilled workers around Europe and would leave Britain if Brexit mean higher tariffs to access the single market, he warned.

Hmm, concerned about companies being able to move skilled (cheap) labour around rather then train the labour here. Hardly concern for the average joe in the street.
The priority is always going to be the business. This shouldn't be an alien concept to anyone.
aurichie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 12:03
Ledecestre
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 27
There are some similarities. A foreign power was trying to control English life and override the authority of the English. Henry VIII and his English Parliament changed the law of the land and took back power from the foreigner. This also included keepng English money in England and not exporting it to the foreign power.

1533: the Act of Restraint of Appeals
1534: The Act of Supremacy
1534: The Act of Annates
I'd hardly call acts influenced by his desire to annul his marriage a good comparison with the current situation.
Ledecestre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 12:32
Tassium
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: It's Grim
Posts: 24,400
The thing about Corbyn he sends out mixed messages.

I suppose he doesn't want to come across like some kind of commie. But this whole "world economy" thing is the problem, corporations having the power of states is the problem.
Tassium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 12:39
Annsyre
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97,109
I'd hardly call acts influenced by his desire to annul his marriage a good comparison with the current situation.
They were not simply Acts to annul his marriage they were acts to reclaim authority from the Pope and to stope sending money to the Pope. Very like the EU situation.
Annsyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 14:03
platelet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GL51 0EX
Posts: 14,085
Obama loves him, reckons he's in touch with the people.
Notice you didn't dispute he lied about the Bernie Sander's support

And i doubt Corbyn will embrace the MSM since they're biased against his policies. He'd have to re-centre his policy ideas to ever think he could fair well in the MSM and since he's finally claiming his rightful position as "head establishment botherer" clearly he's not moving to the centre.

What makes you think he will embrace the msm?
They've been trailing the relaunch since mid December, with talks of him appearing on TV a lot more often and a new team in place to write /re-write his policy.

I can't wait to see him pop up on The Daily Politics
platelet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 15:06
Annsyre
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97,109
Notice you didn't dispute he lied about the Bernie Sander's support



They've been trailing the relaunch since mid December, with talks of him appearing on TV a lot more often and a new team in place to write /re-write his policy.

I can't wait to see him pop up on The Daily Politics
Perhaps we will all see him soon on DP Sky and BBC news supporting his candidate in the Copeland By Election?
Annsyre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 15:06
aurichie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,099
The thing about Corbyn he sends out mixed messages.

I suppose he doesn't want to come across like some kind of commie. But this whole "world economy" thing is the problem, corporations having the power of states is the problem.
He's trying to shore up his position as Labour leader. Everyone knows he'd be cheerleader of the brexiteers if he was still some irrelevant backbench MP.
aurichie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:14
thenetworkbabe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,217
He should worry about Labour remain voters deserting a party that they no longer feel represents them or their beliefs.
Indeed Corbyn has retreated to his islington socialist , Stop the War, party leader role.

He wants immigration and the single market, on his terms. But his voters want immigration controls, as does a majority of the population, and as was about the only clear, achievable, policy offered by Leave.

He covers this by having some ,contradictory ,weasel words about control , as well as freedom of movement- which matches where Starmer is, and some of his MPs. But his MPs in marginal seats and northern core seats know their voters want more than a yes, but also no immigration policy.

At some point , reality is going to hit him with a sledge hammer. He and Labour will be seen as demanding the impossible combination of free market access, and no freedom of movement , while his second face demands no immigration control, and allows his opponents to paint him, as being for unrestricted immigration- and against the population's wishes.

The Henry V111 stuff is nonsense. There's zero point of having a debate, or vote, to decide on on the terms . Its no debate or a meaningless debate or a disater if the terms are rejected. There will be no alternative terms that are better, so there's nothing else to rationally do, but say yes to what Europe has offered. The only reason to call for a vote would be to posture Labour- to argue that it could have got its own wish list of contradictions - but only the dumbest of voters wouldn't see through that sort of, old style, party political posturing..
thenetworkbabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:19
andykn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,469
There are some similarities. A foreign power was trying to control English life and override the authority of the English. Henry VIII and his English Parliament changed the law of the land and took back power from the foreigner. This also included keepng English money in England and not exporting it to the foreign power.

1533: the Act of Restraint of Appeals
1534: The Act of Supremacy
1534: The Act of Annates
1566: The Eighty Years War
andykn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:21
andykn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,469
Indeed Corbyn has retreated to his islington socialist , Stop the War, party leader role.

He wants immigration and the single market, on his terms. But his voters want immigration controls, as does a majority of the population, and as was about the only clear, achievable, policy offered by Leave.
Clear yes, achievable, well... Look how well May did in six years on Cameron's "tens of thousands" promise, net non EU migration is now higher than EU.
andykn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:21
MargMck
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 17,632
He's trying to shore up his position as Labour leader. Everyone knows he'd be cheerleader of the brexiteers if he was still some irrelevant backbench MP.
Sometimes I wonder if 'Corbyn the Remainer' was simply a clever ploy to ensure a couple of million "Well, if he says Stay, I'm definitely Leave" votes.
MargMck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:22
andykn
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London SW6
Posts: 37,469
They were not simply Acts to annul his marriage they were acts to reclaim authority from the Pope and to stope sending money to the Pope. Very like the EU situation.
"...influenced by his desire to..." were the words.
andykn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:31
OLD HIPPY GUY
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: I survived the killzone!
Posts: 18,241
He's trying to shore up his position as Labour leader. Everyone knows he'd be cheerleader of the brexiteers if he was still some irrelevant backbench MP.
Another mind reader who knows what "everyone" thinks.
OLD HIPPY GUY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 16:37
Shalamara
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 98
He's a joke with some very nasty friends which fortunately makes him unelectable. I'm looking forward to the 2020 GE when Labour will disappear into obscurity.
Shalamara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-12-2016, 17:09
platelet
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GL51 0EX
Posts: 14,085
Perhaps we will all see him soon on DP Sky and BBC news supporting his candidate in the Copeland By Election?
I suspect (much like the radio four Today show) the best he will do is give prerecorded interviews - so that the spinners can get to work in advance with the "What Jeremy meant was...".

I hope I'm wrong mind, I'd have a lot more respect for him if he went head to head with Andrew - even if he was annihilated
platelet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-12-2016, 01:12
scowie
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 61
There will be no alternative terms that are better, so there's nothing else to rationally do, but say yes to what Europe has offered.
The alternative is WTO rules, which may well be better if the EU offer a really poor deal.
scowie is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply




 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:23.