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ECHR for the chop post 2020 election |
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#1 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
Posts: 4,784
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ECHR for the chop post 2020 election
Who needs rights anyway? May is to make opting out of the ECHR a part of her election platform
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...tain-european/ |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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What could go wrong when an authoritarian PM gets to decide which rights we should be allowed - and when those rights could be removed from us.
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40,288
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Why should we not have our own British human rights legislation based on our values and interpreted by our courts.
Most countries do - outside Europe. |
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#4 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,217
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Will the UK public get more rights or have less rights than they have now. ? Well to give the UK public more rights you dont need to leave the ECHR, you only need to leave if you want to take rights away
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#5 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,217
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Quote:
Why should we not have our own British human rights legislation based on our values and interpreted by our courts.
Most countries do - outside Europe. |
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,794
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Quote:
Why should we not have our own British human rights legislation based on our values and interpreted by our courts.
Most countries do - outside Europe. |
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#7 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
Posts: 4,784
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Quote:
What could go wrong when an authoritarian PM gets to decide which rights we should be allowed - and when those rights could be removed from us.
Quote:
Will the UK public get more rights or have less rights than they have now. ? Well to give the UK public more rights you dont need to leave the ECHR, you only need to leave if you want to take rights away
And I'm guessing the ECHR will get invoked along the way in Brexit negotiations. So the EU27 and the UK will be negotiating the rights of EU citizens here, and UK citizens on other EU countries under a Convention the Tories will scrap. |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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The Prime Minister is understood to be backing plans to “lift and shift” human rights enshrined in the European Convention and write them into UK law.
I thought that had already been done with the introduction of the HRA. |
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#9 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 9,779
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As always, build a straw man based on the worst possible scenario then attack it.
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#10 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,892
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FTFA, some geezer spaketh thus: Quote:
He told MPs: “Although we have no quarrel with the content of the European Convention on Human Rights, it is the way in which that document is applied that gives us difficulty.
This reflects a fair chunk of the legal commentary surrounding the ECHR - it was written in a time when people wouldn't try it on and provide fodder for the tabloids (you only need a half truth once to make the rest clickworthy), and before the government and corporate worlds over-reacted and became scared to let anyone do anything for fear of getting sued, bad publicity etc.A whole raft of reasons that none of the original writers could ever have envisaged, though in theory that would only warrant a wording adjustment rather than a complete rewrite, then again why not just have a new treaty, we have a whole team of people ready to be paid to research the wording for ECHR2.0 ... So what's going to be in this bill of rights, if 'britishness' is the theme, then there definitely has to be provision for everyone to have the right to stop for tea at 4pm, including the tea pourers and crumpet attendants. |
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#11 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: deploRable town centre
Posts: 6,210
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just excellent news if true. this will be really popular and a winner.
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#12 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,892
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Quote:
The Prime Minister is understood to be backing plans to “lift and shift” human rights enshrined in the European Convention and write them into UK law.
I thought that had already been done with the introduction of the HRA. |
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#13 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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Quote:
And I'm guessing the ECHR will get invoked along the way in Brexit negotiations. So the EU27 and the UK will be negotiating the rights of EU citizens here, and UK citizens on other EU countries under a Convention the Tories will scrap.
If May does wish the UK to withdraw from the ECHR and replace it with a Bill of Rights it will need to be agreed by parliament. There is nothing inherently wrong with that idea but it depends on what is in the BoR and the cause lies with the 'interpretation' of the ECHR by courts which is primarily the redaction of the wording of article 8. |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 25,437
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Quote:
If I understand correctly, the HRA means that ECHR cases can be done in British courts instead of having a jolly over to Strasbourg, but did not actually create a UK law with all the contents/clauses/wording of the ECHR.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
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Quote:
Don't see how, there is nothing in the ECHR that provides for freedom of movement between states.
If May does wish the UK to withdraw from the ECHR and replace it with a Bill of Rights it will need to be agreed by parliament. I didn't mention FoM as that is a dead duck. It's why I specifically referred to rights - not FoM. In practice it will mean any agreement the EU makes with the UK around the status of EU migrants here will only be guaranteed until the ECHR is replaced with a Bill or Rights. |
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 76,811
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Quote:
The Prime Minister is understood to be backing plans to “lift and shift” human rights enshrined in the European Convention and write them into UK law.
I thought that had already been done with the introduction of the HRA. I assume this will be sold as a massive clampdown on prisoners, foreigners, scroungers, gypsies, anybody else who the tabloid press can whip up antagonism towards.................but in reality it'll just be a technical administrative measure to prevent people taking cases beyond the Supreme Court by Appeal to the European Court I still wouldn't be in favour of removing that right of Appeal but the tabloid headlines will far outweigh the actual significance |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 11,738
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Quote:
Why should we not have our own British human rights legislation based on our values and interpreted by our courts.
Most countries do - outside Europe. |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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Quote:
Things like the right to remain will have to have some legal basis. The EU and UK say it is OK to stay, but that right will need to be enshrined in law somewhere.
I didn't mention FoM as that is a dead duck. It's why I specifically referred to rights - not FoM. In practice it will mean any agreement the EU makes with the UK around the status of EU migrants here will only be guaranteed until the ECHR is replaced with a Bill or Rights. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 25,217
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Absolutely right, but the fat cat human rights lawyers who have got rich using tax payer money, will be up in arms, and they'll have plenty of support from parliament and the house of lords. I cringe as I use the phrase but at the next election I think when it comes to the vote, 'draining the swamp' might come to mind. People have had enough of the self interested politicians, when Osborne and Cameron talked about us all being in it together, Brexit has shown what they really meant.
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#20 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wammy's House
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Quote:
The UK has already offered an agreement to the EU that each others' citizens should be allowed to stay post Brexit which the EU refused to discuss. That is almost certainly what will happen and the exit agreement would be the logical place to establish it in terms of a legal agreement. The ECHR or a Bill of Rights would be irrelevant to that as neither the former nor the latter do or will provide a right to FoM.
BIB -And again, I specifically stated I was not referring to FoM. I was talking about things like the right to remain, it might also involve access to jobs, housing etc. An exit agreement will be next to useless for any migrant here that could have a grievance as the UK will be opting out of the ECHR, maybe the ECJ. The UK will be joining Belarus as (I think ) the only other European country not to be a party to the ECHR. Something to look forward to there. |
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#21 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,201
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Quote:
Why should we not have our own British human rights legislation based on our values and interpreted by our courts.
Most countries do - outside Europe. |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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Quote:
And again, I specifically stated I was not referring to FoM. I was talking about things like the right to remain, it might also involve access to jobs, housing etc. An exit agreement will be next to useless for any migrant here that could have a grievance as the UK will be opting out of the ECHR, maybe the ECJ.
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#23 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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Quote:
An exit agreement will be the crucial thing for EU citizens remaining in the UK and UK citizens remaining in the EU and as both the UK and the EU will have signed it any grievance a citzien may have against the the UK or the EU wilth regard to it can be taken to the courts. The ECHR is irrelevant to that.
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#24 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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So the ECHR is irrelevant to er, rights.
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#25 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 1,059
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Err.. you do realise the ECHR was broadly based on the English bill of rights, and that a British lawyer provided guidance on the drafting.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davi...arl_of_Kilmuir |
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