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ECHR for the chop post 2020 election |
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#26 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,812
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Quote:
The UK has already offered an agreement to the EU that each others' citizens should be allowed to stay post Brexit which the EU refused to discuss. That is almost certainly what will happen and the exit agreement would be the logical place to establish it in terms of a legal agreement. The ECHR or a Bill of Rights would be irrelevant to that as neither the former nor the latter do or will provide a right to FoM.
If we are incapable of making a straightener decision about this on our own, it goes to show just how dependent on the EU a post-Brexit UK will be as we will in reality be reduced to having them make the decision for us which we then "copy-paste" while engaging in a delusion of being "independent" of the EU. |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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The issue of whether or not EU citizens are allowed to stay in the U.K. and on what basis is one the many decisions that, in the new post-Brexit "utopia", we are supposed to be able to make "independently" by "exercising our sovereignty". It is not one that is supposed to be dependent on any decision or decisions of the EU and/or its member states or on any discussions that we do or do not hold with them.
If we are incapable of making a straightener decision about this on our own, it goes to show just how dependent on the EU a post-Brexit UK will be as we will in reality be reduced to having them make the decision for us which we then "copy-paste" while engaging in a delusion of being "independent" of the EU. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,236
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Unfortunately our government doesn't always act in the interests of the people.
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#29 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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The practical effect though was to incorporate the ECHR into British law.
Though reslly the issue is that it needs a rewrite, or even a memo stuck to the front with e.g. 'being refused a gym membership is not an act of oppression'. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,312
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And the ECHR does?? Abu Hamza anyone?
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#31 |
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,794
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And the ECHR does?? Abu Hamza anyone?
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#32 |
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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I thought being a signatory to the convention already did that? There's probably something more detailed on that, I think possibly involving words like 'transposition' but probably also 'subsume' and 'assimilate'...
Though reslly the issue is that it needs a rewrite, or even a memo stuck to the front with e.g. 'being refused a gym membership is not an act of oppression'. |
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#33 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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And the ECHR does?? Abu Hamza anyone?
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#34 |
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: My DJ Studio
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I can't see this really happening, it would be suicide for the party.
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#35 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,892
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Why they were refused gym membership could be however.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pimlico, central London, UK
Posts: 14,877
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I must say I would be a little worried if the Tories get a decent majority at the next election (which they surely would against the incompetent Corbyn), and this majority then chooses whats in the bill of rights - as the new Tory intake at the next election is likely to be pretty hard right, as many Tory associations will only put up Brexit supporting candidates, most of whom will be more Peter Bone than Ken Clark in their worldview.
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#37 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: It's Grim
Posts: 24,401
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The only problem with the centralising of law and economic policy is that it doesn't work.
Hence why EU member states are not doing so well. |
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#38 |
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,311
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Who needs rights anyway? May is to make opting out of the ECHR a part of her election platform
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...tain-european/ |
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#39 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
Posts: 51,606
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It's usually only autocratic regimes who are in favour of isolationism. Britain is not "becoming sovereign again" : it's attempting to turn its back on the world.
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#40 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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It's usually only autocratic regimes who are in favour of isolationism. Britain is not "becoming sovereign again" : it's attempting to turn its back on the world.
Where as, in reality... |
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#41 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
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Oh really? That's whatcha reckon is it?
Where as, in reality... |
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#42 |
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Who needs rights anyway? May is to make opting out of the ECHR a part of her election platform
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...tain-european/ (The ECJ being part of the EU we would leave as part of the EU) |
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#43 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Trump has pretty much the same policy, along the lines of isolationism and going it alone (he threatened to leave NATO at one point during his campaign and his latest thing is bashing the UN as a useless talking shop).
There is no evidence to show that the UK (in your words) is "attempting to turn its back on the world.” |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,812
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The UK government's position is citizens of the UK and the EU should be able to remain where they are but this needs the EU to agree with that.
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Your position appears to be the UK should guarantee EU citizens can remain and ignore UK citizens which is not unexpected from a Europhile.
It speaks volumes that you, a Leave supporter, believe that we should be reduced to being dependent on a decision of the EU prior to being able to make a fundamental decision on sovereignty here. |
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#45 |
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Join Date: Mar 2010
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According to the Guardian, less rights will be covered in the replacement for the ECHR
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...l-after-brexit |
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#46 |
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dublin
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Nope, not pretty much the same.
There is no evidence to show that the UK (in your words) is "attempting to turn its back on the world.” |
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#47 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,772
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What could go wrong when an authoritarian PM gets to decide which rights we should be allowed - and when those rights could be removed from us.
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#48 |
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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The UK is withdrawing from a 28 strong trading bloc / political union for mainly political reasons (immigration, sovereignty) and is talking about how ending freedom of movement with its nearest neighbours is an absolute priority and yet this is not a form of isolationism?
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#49 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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According to the Guardian, less rights will be covered in the replacement for the ECHR
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...l-after-brexit ![]() e2a: Did I miss the bit in the article where they say less/reduced/fewer? Are they going by word-count? Does one have more sections than the other? Is the bit that says 'except pet cats' counted as a minus-one? |
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#50 |
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Devon
Posts: 47,995
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Our government does NOT need the EU to agree to anything prior to it making a decision on whether or not citizens from the EU can or cannot remain in the U.K. should we leave the EU.
No, my position is that if we are supposedly going to be "independent" of the EU then we can make such decisions on our own - that, after all, is the supposed "benefit" of Brexit. We are not supposed to be dependent on the rest of the EU to make any decision in the Brexit fantasy. It speaks volumes that you, a Leave supporter, believe that we should be reduced to being dependent on a decision of the EU prior to being able to make a fundamental decision on sovereignty here. |
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